Interesting (new?) Guidecam [Archive]

netwolf

26-02-2007, 05:38 PM

This company is the US Distributor for the QHY cameras. Gama has posted some decent images he has taken with the QHY8. The US Distributors adjust the camera's to include external power supply etc for local distribution.

There have been decent images taken with this setup posted on CN and IIS. 1900$ is cheap compared to an SBIG with similar chip. The qhy forums have a good collection of user images to check out. Qhy is also investigating a 11MP camera.

The CMOS guide camera uses the same chip as used in the SAC4-2 camera. The difference is that it has built in guiding.

Note I have no affiliation with the vendors. I am happy to see some competition to an otherwise overpriced market. I am saving up to get myself a QHy6 or better QHy2 which is similar to the DSI II PRo.

Regards
Fahim

JohnH

26-02-2007, 07:06 PM

Err, I was only referring to the QGuide....any views on that....

netwolf

26-02-2007, 07:20 PM

John,

Here is the official thread on the QHY forums discussing the CMOS guide camera.
http://qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/index.php?topic=20.0

One of the members has posted some of his pictures taken with the camera here.
http://qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/index.php?topic=50.0

Also check out the SAC4-2 and the Orion Starshoot for similar chip camera's. You can then see what images have been taken with them to compare with.

As a Gudie camera I think its quiet good as it has built in ST4 guider. I assume this means that you can plug this direct into your autogudier ports that support st4, with no need for an external software like guidedog etc.

Regards

rogerg

26-02-2007, 08:31 PM

Yes... I think that looks like a great guider. The small pixel size would suit both of my guide scopes very well. As it is I use a webcam which has a 5.6x5.6 pixel size. Such small pixel sizes suit the small guide scopes nicely, means you don't need such a long focal length.

Very affordable price too.

I'm tempted but with the webcam that's doing the job ok for me now I won't seriously consider one until I get anoyed at the webcam.

My 2c worth.

JohnH

26-02-2007, 09:06 PM

That is what has piqued my interest for sure - I'll check the forums for more info...thanks for the links...

netwolf

26-02-2007, 09:44 PM

Johm,

I notice in your signature you mention the Orion Starshoot, if I am not mistaken this has the same chip in it.

Regards
Fahim

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 01:38 AM

... but the starshoot (and indeed other SAC cameras) are no more ?

Arthur

PS Atik 16IC?

netwolf

27-02-2007, 01:49 AM

The Orion DSO Starshoot is no more, as it was being made for them by SAC.
They have released a new ORion Starshoot Solar/Lunar cam, which uses the CMOS chip used on this guide camera.
There is also a camera called the Starfish in the US that uses the same chip.

Regards
Fahim

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 03:41 AM

Right. So what about the Atik16IC then?

netwolf

27-02-2007, 05:48 AM

Ambermile, the ATIK16 cameras are the next evolution of the camera originally started by Steve Chambers and co as a kit camera. The QHY cameras user the same sensors, you can chose which particular one you want. Withing each series there is a range you can select from. The QHY are much more affordable than the ATIK's which are still well priced compard to the Sbig and Stellacam.

From a bang for buck the QHY is the clear winner. And from the images I have seen from the latest QHY camera's is awesome. The ATIK's have a great reputation, the name Steve Chambers is etched in history for the long exposure mods. Either camera is still far more affordable than the SBIG's, and its good to have options and competition in the market.

Regards

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 05:55 AM

Umm, no. The Atik16 and 16HR cameras *are* the kit cameras. The 16IC is a camera designed to compete with the DSI II and thereabouts, which is why they are ccd-based still rather than cmos. The 16IC is decidedly *not* an "evolution" of the kit cameras but a new design completely.

As you say though, the price is not too bad for a cmos camera.

Arthur

netwolf

27-02-2007, 05:55 AM

The ATIK 16IC resolution less than QHY6. QHY6 is half the price of the ATIK 16IC.

Regards

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 06:00 AM

Lets not get into mudslinging eh? Only the 8 shows on the website and is $1900. What is the 6 spec?

http://qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/index.php?topic=50.0 shows Boothee's pics, not with a Q anything?

netwolf

27-02-2007, 06:01 AM

Arthur you are correct abou the IC, is a new design. The price is the same as a QHY2 which offer almost double the resolution. The DSI II PRo and the QHY6 are similar resolution but qhy is half the price.

Regards

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 06:10 AM

But the 2 is cmos, surely? Which was my point. If it is ccd-based then I apologise but I cannot find any spec for other than the 8 and the Guide?

Arthur

netwolf

27-02-2007, 06:10 AM

Arthur, I dont sell these camera's so i have no resson to sling mud ;). I am just pointing out the specifications and price differences. And I leave it to the people who own them to show what has been done with them. I dont own any so I can only report what I have read.
I do have a personal interest in wanting to see more affordable camera. ;)

The QHY6 uses a sony CCD with resolution equivalent to the DSI II camera's.
http://qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/index.php?topic=41.0

I made an error before the QHY2 is higher resolution than the DSI II Pro and is slightly less expensive.

Regards

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 06:18 AM

OK. So the 6 uses the 259, but the 16IC uses the 429 which is the same 752x582 but which uses 25% larger pixels...

netwolf

27-02-2007, 06:19 AM

QHY2 uses the ICX412 by default. 3.3MP I think.
http://qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/index.php?topic=15.0

netwolf

27-02-2007, 06:24 AM

Arthur, are you sure maybe thats a newer version see here 16IC
http://www.perseu.pt/atik/product_atk16ic_tech.php
states 659x494 using the ICX-424AL chip.

The 16C uses the 429 chip.
http://www.perseu.pt/atik/product_atk16c_tech.php

Regards

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 06:28 AM

Yup - my mistake, but the sensor area is still comparable? The 16C uses the 429AQ I think, the 16 using the 429AL - the 16ICC uses the 424AQ and the 16IC the 424AL

But on the 412, that pixel size is scary, no? 3.45 microns square is making for a bit of an awkward beast to focus... and still a small sensor area too. Whatever, as you say, it's good to see more camera manufacturers - the likes of SBIG and SX have had it their own way for too long :)

Arthur

netwolf

27-02-2007, 06:34 AM

Here Here :) we need more of em.

I cant comment on pixel size and focus, as I dont know much about this stuff from a practical standpoint. Its my understanding that its better to have less pixels in the same area than to have more. From that standpoint some of these camera's need to be reviewed more closely. SBIG and SX are getting a rude awakening.

Regards

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 06:37 AM

Ain't that the truth - it's amazing that they are likely to still try and maintain their prices in the face of all that's happening. Never mind... come the revolution they'll be the first... :thumbsup:

Arthur

netwolf

27-02-2007, 06:40 AM

One point about the QHY is that the CCD cameras dont do video capture like a webcam. Not sure if the ATIK's do this. The cmos version does do video cap.

Regards

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 07:38 AM

Hmm - that's because alot of the camera is on the chip itself and so streaming can be easier to implement - but noise is inherent as a result as there is more of the electronics close to the sensor area. Personally I think for streaming like this (and so by definition for planetary imaging) that cmos-based cameras have been overlooked unjustly. Possibly this can be traced back to the first LE modded webcam which was cmos-based and would "noise-out" after 4 seconds. Thereafter it was ignored by QCUIAG and then by default the future webcam-based imagers to come later and the "CCD Rules" mentality seemd to include all sorts of imaging when it really should have been applied to only the LE side of things.

Arthur

netwolf

27-02-2007, 09:50 AM

Arthur, you are correct, the CMOS version is overlooked. The current Logitech Fusion camera actually does modify quiet well for Planetary imaging. There is a nice website about it that shows what one person Gary has been able to achieve with it, and its impressive. The chip is very similar in specs to the one being used in the QHY cmos cam, but to date it has not been identified.

Regards

allan gould

27-02-2007, 10:04 AM

I have contacted QHY about their guide camera and made certain suggestions that they may be going to implement. The problem with all guide cameras is that you need a laptop or computer in the field to opperate them. Unfortunately meade had the right idea with their 201xt in that it was a stand alone guider but was a &%&*% to operate sucessfully until you learnt all the tricks. But true to meades abilities they didn't continue with it. In my email from them (QHY) it is possible that they are going to implement a stand alone guider with a small CCD screen on the back. This will let you find and centre a guide star and get a fairly good focus. Remember for guiding you dont need perfect focus. They are going to look at making such a beast and it would be perfect for the DSLR astrophotographers. No laptop and less things to go wrong. If there is sufficient interest there will be such a guider which would knock SBIG into a cocked hat.
Allan

h0ughy

27-02-2007, 01:11 PM

what a great idea - get them to do it very soon;) :D

Striker

27-02-2007, 01:23 PM

Wow we have some sbig haters here...lol

I really think you should be comparing Starlight cameras with the QHY range atleast there using the same chips...SBIG dont use Sony chips.

Saying this I think the QH range is great value if your after a 1 shot color.
Look forward seeing the monochrome in this range....thats a lot more appealing to me then the 1 shot color.

netwolf

27-02-2007, 03:48 PM

SBIG and the other big names are very good cameras, dont get me wrong I respect there quality and reputation. But I do question the value proposition of it, in todays market.

Regards

allan gould

27-02-2007, 04:49 PM

Houghy
The best way would be for you and others to get this development happening would be to get onto his chat line on his website and also say that you are interested in his design. If enough people were to show interest then he would go ahead and start making a model. See quote below

Re: Stand alone autoguider
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2007, 01:51:04 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting idea Maybe it can be my next production after QHY11.
I will do some market investment and see if there is many request on this production

Ambermile

27-02-2007, 08:18 PM

Let me get back to you all later with some pics... there's already a low light camera on the market in the US that does this. I got one a couple of years ago to mess about with...

Arthur

Ambermile

28-02-2007, 12:00 AM

OK - take a peek. Camera sits on a 4" TV Zoom

netwolf

28-02-2007, 01:29 AM

Ok I can barely read the text in your picture but I made out nitemax. Here is the website. http://www.nitemax-ultra.com/
Looks interesting. Interchangeable lens, might do as completion for the Astrovid's and Mintorn camera setups. Resolution is 420 lines.

Arthur, Does it have frame integration? and gain controls etc.

Regards

Ambermile

28-02-2007, 02:57 AM

Well young Sherlock, nice digging!:lol:

It has only LCD Brightness and Gain control, no integration, but in the 4" lens in the pic it will show M42 rather well. It is a C mount fitting incidentally.

There were a few of them for sale on Ebay a year or so ago, and we got two of them. The streamed video can be integrated on a pc to give a decent image but in this context (of standalone guiding) it's a bit of a nonstarter if you use one ;)

I actually rather like it as a camera and on brighter targets it's not bad. Maybe AstroVideo could do something with it but I never got around to trying... always too much to do and not enough time! Was even going to drop it in the big dob at one time but forgot all about it until this discussion :whistle:

Arthur

Gama

28-02-2007, 05:16 AM

Jeepers, i missed this post, and had to read 35 of them at once..
Let me see if i can sort some things out.
OK, with the Q guider, this is the QHY Cmos guider camera. The U.S distributer (Who was also one of the founders of the SAC cameras) renames them. As he does the QHY8 to his model, and the difference there being that his model uses the USB port to power the camera and the Peltier cooler instead of an external power supply. This really puts a strain on the USB port, but thats the difference anyway.

Now, Allan, i have been in contact with Qiu about the guider, and i also put this to him some months back. You are right in saying the more people wanting the self guiding the better.
But so far, it is on the board for design. The problem is Qiu (QHY) is producing too many products too fast, and its taking a huge toll on further design and modifications. This guy assembles the cameras himself, and as of 2 days ago, he had 22 QHY8 cameras being built alone. Some of these are headed here to Aus to some customers that ordered them, others around the world.
Tony (Striker) is right with the competing models comparing to SBIG, but you all might not know about the QHY3 which some used the Kodak 6303 mono sensor http://web.aanet.com.au/gama/QHY3.html (Site still under construction), which is now discontinued. Im trying to bring this model back, but we need more people that will be interested in this model. The reason its being chopped is because of the big 11Mpixel camera comming. The price difference is only marginal between the two, and the demand is more for the 11 Mpixel camera. Other things going on are future mechanical shutters for cameras, temperature readout on screen, and a couple i cant reveal just yet.
What makes Qiu different to large corporates is that he is contactable and down to earth, willing to hear anything from anyone. He supplies ALL information about the camera and firmware for others to use and program.
All issues and problems are on the table, and discussed openly. Show me any one else that does that.
Thanks to Fahim (Netwolf) for answering most of your questions and concerns (Where do you want me to send the check ?...).
If you guys need any info or help just drop me an email or private message.
http://web.aanet.com.au/gama/index.html for basic info and emailing me. Like i said, its still under construction.

Oh yeah, i made this post long, so you guys can suffer the tourment of making me read the 35 posts earlier.....

C ya guys

Theo

netwolf

28-02-2007, 09:45 AM

Gamma, Thanks mate I will send my details ;). Just kidding my only interest is to see more camera's like this come out, to compete with the mainstream. As I believe this will help to keep prices affordable. And to see local business bring these in and support them, at reasonable markups.

Regards

Striker

28-02-2007, 12:17 PM

Thanks for the info Theo,

Bit surprising they are going for the 11mp chip...firstly it doesn't suit a lot of scopes and the 6303 chip is a far better chip anyway and will suit almost any scope.

I suppose you dont have any ides off the cost of these cameras with the above chips mentioned....????

allan gould

28-02-2007, 03:45 PM

I have to tell the group that I was on the QHY site in relation to the post that I had placed about the possibility of a stand-alone autoguider. It was on that site that Martin Myslivec posted that he had made such a device with a small camera and LCD screen.
http://foto.astronomy.cz/TVGuider.htm
When I went to his site I was literally blown away at the professional board and appearance of the device. I have ordered the last of his latest production run and should have it some time in April. The reason I went this route is that the product will do everyting that I want NOW and its available. Sorry to QHY.
Have a look at the site, I think the camera is NTSC but that will not affect its capabilities.
Now I'm like a kid at Xmas and can hardly wait:face:

Gama

28-02-2007, 04:07 PM

Prelimanary prices are estimated at around half the cost of SBIG for the same size camera (11Mpixel). Would you buy a 6.3 Mpixel or 11 Mpixel camera for a few dollars more..
Plus the added bonus of further price reductions in the cost of the sensor in future builds will also reduce cost.
It is a good looking guider Allan, but it comes at a cost, and this is where most of us go no further. QHY tries to bring most main stream Astro equipment that many pro's have into our hands without paying thru the nose for it. But just like a kid in a candy store, you couldnt help yourself. It would be good to have a review on it in the future..

Theo.

JohnH

28-02-2007, 04:20 PM

That looks nice, will you write us a review, what is the cost?

h0ughy

28-02-2007, 07:02 PM

looks fantastic, how much was it, and how can you read it?;)

allan gould

28-02-2007, 09:23 PM

Houghy
Have a work mate who is native born czech and I have also been in contact with the manufacturer. We are sorting a few things out and I should be able to answer you questions in a better fashion tomorrow when he replies to a few queries and we sort out shipping and final cost. I expect that the unit will come in at about $650US for the camera, cables and TVGuider unit with built in LCD screen. This unit was exactly what I was looking for. Run off 12 volt battery, with LCD screen for ensuring a good guide star and for focussing. Lux capability of the camera goes down to about 0.0003 lux so should be quite sensitive. Also it appears to work well with EQ6 skyscan, HEQ5 Pro Synscan, LX200, Losmandy G11 and finally CG5 GT. Has a com port so that the software can be upgraded over the internet. Also has a video out port so can be connected to an external monitor. Here I assume the camera is NTSC and NOT PAL. This is one question I have asked ie what is the video out. Am I correct in thinking that some small TVs / monitors can switch between the two? Also the little LCD screen can be switched off to conserve power once the unit is actively guiding.
Seems like the equivalent of STV without the image capture, but since I wanted it as a stand alone autoguider, its perfect and at $US650 a bargain. As I said should have it April and will write it up once I have put it through its paces.

h0ughy

28-02-2007, 10:09 PM

I have a st4 but that looks like it would be heaps easier to use

allan gould

28-02-2007, 10:29 PM

I guess that will all depend upon the software. Whats for certain the camera is smaller and probably more sensistive. And whats the cost of a 2nd hand ST4?

h0ughy

28-02-2007, 10:33 PM

about the same

allan gould

01-03-2007, 10:13 AM

I have to make a correction to my last post. I assumed that the camera and video output would be NTSC however I was wrong. The camera and whole system is PAL and thus output can be to any monitor you like. Makes the system more compatable with Australia and if you already have a PAL video camera ie GSTAR then you can save some money by just getting the VGuider with out the camera. Cost ~$US400.
Anyway thats all the information i have until I test out the unit.

netwolf

01-03-2007, 07:58 PM

I wonder if the Vguider could be built with USB input, that way you could use a standard other astro webcams.

Regards

allan gould

01-03-2007, 09:14 PM

You can guide down to mag 8 or 8.5 stars with the video integration apparently of about 0.5 sec. This is far below what a webcam can go down to without modification. For a modded webcam you are up for ~$AU500 if you can get one. For $US650 I know how I would want to spend my money. Also apparently guides to 0.3 of a pixel (with 70x500mm guidescope) with a main scope working at about 1500mm (if I remeber correctly). I hope that QHY eventually manages to come up with something similar to what Martin Myslivec has conjoured up. Maybe you should ask him (QHY) if he would consider USB in his camera as he does respond to the messages on his discussion forum. Would be good to see a choice in this area.

Apocrisiary

02-03-2007, 08:03 PM

I hate warranties that exclude acts of God...especially with CCD cameras.;)

Gama

03-03-2007, 09:43 PM

Not to mention Acts of Frustration. The most dangerous.

allan gould

08-03-2007, 08:11 PM

Just as an update: I and some friends are going to translate the User's Guide for Martin Myslivec's camera and autoguider. Hopefully we should have it done within a reasonable amount of time.

h0ughy

25-03-2007, 01:02 PM

Allan,

how is the translation process going?

Has the setup arrived in australia yet? Any other information to tell?:whistle:

allan gould

26-03-2007, 09:31 AM

Unfortunately, translation very slow. When you are dependant upon the graces of others you are reluctant to push too hard. The setup is supposed to arrive some time sometime in April and I will test it ASAP and let you know. I'm trying to get right away from taking a computer into the field and when I saw your cooled DSLR fom central ds it looks as if I will be saving my pennies for a cooled 400D.

allan gould

27-03-2007, 09:44 AM

Have almost finished the translation, but the friend doing it got stuck on the tips section as it was too technical for him. But at least have a good idea of how it works. Also was contacted by Martin Mylivec re my autoguider and he said it would be sent off mid-April. Its one of these in picture as he is waiting for the silk screening on the CNC case to be finished (Damn, just cant wait). He also mentioned that in the latest version of his TVGuider he has no calibration routine but has written a high precision guiding routine so that sub-pixel guiding with a small guidescope (see quote below).
In last version of firmware, I added long avaraging (up to 50frames -
2sec) for ultra-high precision. Here you can apply Ratio (RAT) parameter. This sets length of correction pulse (because at for example
0,5 or 1 sec. correction period there is not possible to work like realtime positional feedback). This is similar to calibration, but you must find correct pulse length manually. There are 10 predefined values of RAT parameter. This function is new in this serie of TVGuiders, and you can disable it. I'm testing it too in my piece and it looks so it works well with very short guidescopes. (I tried guide this way 1m Newtonian by 250mm finder) There is possible, so legal calibration will be in one of latest firmware upgrade. But TVGuider can work without it, like it works for people who have one of two previous lots. Simply in positional feedback mode.
Easy to set-up, easy to use.

I hope this will be of interest
Regards, Allan

Vince G

12-04-2007, 04:33 PM

Hello all,
New to this forum.
I'm looking for an autoguider camera probably from the QHY fellow.
Is there an Australian agent?
Any-one know the prices?
I've been to the QHY website and cannot get any information. There isn't even an email address for questions.
Any info will help.
Regards
Vince G

JohnH

13-04-2007, 09:03 AM

Try the Yahoo forum for info. Be aware the company is China based and small so there are reports of shippping delays and difficulty in communication BUT the hardware seems to be getting good reviews:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/CCD-Labs/?yguid=7983213

pvelez

13-04-2007, 01:38 PM

So whats the best alternative for a cheap and cheerful guidescope - DSI, modded webcam or one of the smarter jobs covered in this thread?

Pete

snowyskiesau

13-04-2007, 02:23 PM

For the QHY forums try:

http://www.qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/

There is a local agent who's a member of IIS. You can find his website at:

http://web.aanet.com.au/gama/index.html

Gama

14-04-2007, 02:25 PM

JohnH, theres NOTHING to beware off. So i think that comment is a little unfounded.
In fact if you did your research, you will find the opposite. Before making any comments, you need to make sure you know what you are implying. You have local support and Warranty for your cameras and accessories, plus a proper Tax invoice.
The QHY products are available from U.S.A, Europe, Canada, and not just China.
Also, i see you have an Orion Starshoot, well, guess who designed that and sold it to Orion !!!!!!!.

Vince, i am the Australian Distributer, so if you need further info you can contact me here by PM or my site as posted earlier.

The link you are referring to is an outdated link, the new link was also posted earlier so go and check out whats happening with QHY.

I have sold many cameras and accessories from QHY, and i havent heard any bad reviews or disatisfaction Yet.
You are getting a solid and well designed camera. Granted, there are delays in shipping, but goes to show just how well they are selling. We are not the only people in the world that is buying a QHY camera, so expect delays. But even to wait a month is still better for a camera of its ability.

Lastly, you wont get anything better for the money. Check out the QHY site for the latest.

Theo

Edit: Had to edit, as i had "You" instead of "Who" in the Orionstar shoot line.. Sorry. Corrected now..