Anyone here ever have sciatica.?

[mynameiscd]

Hi all,
Its been 3 weeks of hell here and not too sure what to do.
I work as s stone mason and for the last year ive been doing a large restoration job with some very heavy stones to lift.
3 weeks ago i felt something ping in my lower back and thought nothing of it as ive had this before and at worst 2 to 3 days and all good.
My lower back pain seemed to get worse and then the leg pain started.
I have never felt this type of pain before. Its like my shin has been smashed with a iron bar over and over and i have to look at my leg to convince myself that there is no real damage.
After CT scans ive got a bulging disc between L3 and L4 and thats whats causing my sciatica.
The pain is relentless, 24 hous a day and i cant find a position which to get the pain to stop other than Tramadol, anc Panadine forte which takes the edge off.
Ive tried a chiropractor with gentle manipulation which is ok for a bit but it still comes back.
I've been told I can get cortisone injections directly into my spine.
This sounds a bit drastic but at the moment if someone told me that eating used kitty litter would take the pain away I'm all for it!!!!
Every night lately has been really clear but there's no way i can even lift my heq5 outside let alone get on my knees to do a PA.
Any advise is greatly appreciated
Cheers
Andy:(

[The Mekon]

Yep, had it real bad 15 years ago - I was 48 then. Noticed it first when riding motorcycles, but no great pain and carried on as normal. Then when dirt riding, I had to kick start a cantankerous high compression bike. In hospital the next day unable to move.
No amount of physio had any effect. Pain was tremendous and I would be up three times a night to slowly walk around to ease the pain.
Consulted doctors, physios, and chiros. What cured me in the end after three months of agony was the Chiro - not in his consulting rooms (some of the stuff was just hocus-pocus), but an simple exercise he gave me to do.

Stand back against wall - pull one knee up to chest and hold for 5 seconds, pull up with arms a few times. Do same for other knee.
Repeat for around 3 minutes.
Alternatively, lie flat on floor and draw knee up to chest and hold.

After doing these exercises for around 4 weeks I was completely cured, and the sciatica has never returned.

[mynameiscd]

Thanks John B,
Its the nights that get to me. I go from bed, to chair, to couch, to bed, to couch, then walk, then bed, to chair more pain killers, hot pack cold pack then bed, then chair and then its sunrise and probably 1 to 2 hours "sleep".
I'm about to give the exercises a go right now.
I sort of do this now in bed but no real regime.
Cheers
Andy

[speach]

yep; had the operation to relive it the recuperation from the op was horrendous and then five years later did it again, made the call that I'd live with the pain rather than go through the op again. Now 30 years later it only troubles me about 2 or 3 times a month so win win.

[Imme]

Hi Andy....I’m not a chiropractor but work in the health/fitness field.

My advice for what it is worth is you need to open the spine up gently, stretch the disc spacing (that’s what he kness to the chest is doing).

...another good one if you’re flexible is bending forward over a bench.....just need to gently stretch to get the discs separated so everything has a chance to slip back in place

[Wilso]

+1 for the stretching . Carpenter by trade.
I've had a compressed or bulging disc in the same area, spent about a week on my stomach in bed.
I've got a good Physio and he gave me a series of exercises to do to open up the spine and to help get the spine back into normal position.
A week or so later all good!

[MattT]

Suffered from it as a hazard of what I do for a living.

My cure was the bicycle....very similar movement to the stretches John mentioned. Most cyclists do that stretch daily too.

Of course many other benefits flow on from riding.

[el_draco]

I heard a back specialist on the radio a few days back basically saying 90% of treatments for back pain are pointless and can make the condition worse. Avoid invasive procedures like the plague and they recommend using it as soon as possible to stop pathways being set up.

I screwed my back after several bad smashes on bikes and got it scanned. I had a degenerative condition for 15 years with knowing it and it end my manual lifting pretty damn quick.

Spent two years staggering around on dual sticks popping Di-gesics like lollies with little relief and was pretty well crippled for a decade after that. I slipped a disk just after I met a nurse type about 17 years ago. She did a thing called "Bowen Therapy" on me and a cried like a baby for an hour after. Then I stood up and dropped a tree. 95% less pain from then on... Suffice to say, I married her!!

Bowen is non-invasive, retrains muscles to support your spine better. Hurts like a shot gun blast first time but keeps me walking now. It does not necessarily work for everyone but after I get one, my body temp jumps five degrees plus and my back feels like its on fire for half an hour. Try that before you try anything else.

[mynameiscd]

Thanks
Simon
Jon
Darren
Matthew
Rom,
I'm going to therpepist in Adelaide on Monday to get a guy who has worked on a few friends of mine.
He does Bowen and also does a Nural Organization Technique thing that is supposed to reset the nuralogy which has caused the problem in the first place.
Ill give it a go.
Going to keep on with the stretches and rest and im also looking for a full time worker who would like to trash their back as well.
Requirements are that you can lift really heavy rocks (up to 120 kg) onto scaffold and then lift up mud, tools, water up on the scaff.
Then lift up the rocks again and put them where they fit normally manhandled a few times to modify the shape a bit.
Do this for about a year and then go to the next job.
Hmmm no wonder im not getting many takers....
Just to top it off now the power is off so our internet booster is not working and this tablet is going flat
Cheers all
Andy

[multiweb]

Everyone at some at some stage experiences pinched nerves or pin and needles. The consensus seems to be exercise. Core muscle training is low impact, easy to do and maintain. Planking is good for you as long as you keep breathing. Look for muscle imbalance as well. If you do push you need to equally pull. If you do crunches then you need to work your back as in rowing for example, etc... vary your routine, cycle, run or walk within reason. Exercise will sort out 99% of your problems.

[luka]

Andy, a bit of advice for the time after you get better. Most of those spinal injuries happen because of the weak back and stomach muscles that are not supporting the spine enough. See a physio, get some back and core stretching and strengthening exercises and just make them a part of your routine. It will solve 99% of your problems (unless the injury is already gone too far).

Also there are particular movements that cause the problem. Learn them and avoid them. The spine can take lots of load when straight but not so much when bent. You probably know that bending your knees when lifting will keep the spine straight. So will rolling to your side before getting out of the bed. Don't cross your legs when you are sitting down. A family member used to get sciatica pain every few weeks while putting socks on in the morning until they started to lay down on their backs to put the socks on. Those little habits may sound trivial but help in the long run.

[casstony]

Stay away from any lifting until the back is better and see if you can find some type of hydraulic or electric lift for the heavy blocks.

Spending as much time as possible laying down will give the disc bulge its best chance of receding and taking pressure off the nerve.

If you end up having to see a surgeon it's best to have private health to get access to the best medical people.

[mynameiscd]

Power back on

Thanks
Marc
Luka
Tony
Ive been resting as much as possible as ive now worked out that the more time on my feet, the more pain it is at night.
At 52 its all catching up with me. Considering the work i do especially in winter I've been pretty slack with warm up stretching etc. Its going to be part of my daily routine as soon I get better.
Sometimes you need a wake up call!
Time to get fit again!
As with lifting the Ironstone i use a front end loader to get the stones up to the scaff but you still get them to the wall.
There's a few ways using planks and levers to get the rocks in place but its still awkward weight with twisting and that's why my back is under pressure.
No wonder most of these stone structures were built when Australia was a penal colony.
Cheers
Andy

[OldOz]

Something positive?
Had a really bad attack of sciatica about 10 years ago. Absolute agony, had to use crutches (+codeine) for 2 months. Had just taken home the papers to apply for disabled sticker, when I thought 'this thing doesn't seem so bad today?...
Two hours later, no pain whatsoever. And never came back, either.
Good Luck!

[ngcles]

Hi Andy,

Was something I endured for at least a couple of decades -- the last few years (2003-2006) in almost constant, moderate to severe pain. Yes I understand your pain -- sciatic pain is the absolute pits. My former wife once admitted to me (grudgingly -- after she succumbed) that it was probably as bad as childbirth.
I would recommend you go and see a reputable physio for treatment.
In the end, my long-standing problem at the same joint L3-L4 was finally solved by surgery 12 years ago -- I had the disc removed (it was in five pieces so there was no use keeping it) and a laminectomy widened-out the canals the nerves run through. The result was fantastic. Most people don't need to go down this drastic track -- good care by an experienced physio will look after the problem.
If an operation is in the end necessary (and it probably won't be), I would very, very strongly suggest having it done by a neuro-surgeon as opposed to an ortho. The instruments are far, far more delicate and recovery is much quicker and success rates are much higher. When I had my operation (by a neuro-surgeon), I was out of hospital in four days and almost pain free. In fact, I was in less pain straight after the operation than I was before I went in. A fellow in the next room, who had his operation three days earlier than mine was still using a walking frame and obviously still in considerable pain when I left.

Best of luck with it!

Best,

L.

[Nikolas]

I lost 18 kg's and no back issues since

[Gundary5]

I don’t think I had it as bad as you describe, but I found a targeted massage did wonders. It’s a bit personal though, thumb jammed hard into the spot where your butt ends and the legs start. Instant relief though.

[Wavytone]

Andy I'm another, L4/L5 bulging disk due to years of sailing (I used to race on keelboats) and ballroom dancing - lifting partners.

As with you the pain never stopped day or night and just got worse, eventually excruciating. Persevered to the point I had to use all fours to climb stairs and couldn't step over a curb. Keyhole surgery fixed it successfully, in 2000. 18 years later... no pain, my back is 95% but lifting anything >15kg is forbidden.

[mynameiscd]

Thanks
John
Ngcles
Nik
Gundary
Wavytone

Thanks to all that have replied. It really helps that there is some light at the end of this tunnel.
Had a bad night last night but today is a new day and can only look forward.
Going to Adelaide to see the Bowen, N.O.T. guy and also organizing physio as well.
Thanks for all the support.
Cant wait to have a sleepless night for the real reason esp when we've had so many clear nights.
cheers
Andy

[Kunama]

Hope you get some relief for that soon Andy, there is light at the end of the tunnel....
I suffered a 'pars defect', which is a stress fracture in the L5 pars interarticularis, this gave me years of lower back pain so severe at times that I passed out with the sudden onset of pain.

After the initial healing period I got back into cycling, swimming, scuba and XC skiing to strengthen the muscles around that area and have had almost no recurrences in 20 years.....

[multiweb]

Didn't realise you could come back from a fracture like that. Core training is underrated. It's so easy to do but often overlooked. Pilates, bodyweight exercise, etc... works wonders I reckon.

[graham.hobart]

I agree - core strength so important for back issues. There is a book by a physio called "back in Motion", worth a read. Failing all that and if not settling there are some of the atypical anti convulsants used in management of sciatic pain- i.e gabapentin, pregabalin etc. Worth a try if nothing else helps. Nerve irritation pain often doesn't respond to opiate type pain killers.
Good luck
Graham

[mynameiscd]

Thanks
Kunama
Marc
Graham
I can see the light!!!
Went to see this guy in Adelaide yesterday who does Bowen, remedial work.
The lower back pain that I've been putting up with for weeks has gone!!!!!
I still have the leg pain but nowhere near as bad so I had a pretty good sleep for a change.
I'm going back to see him this morning for a second treatment and getting a series of core and back strengthening exercises.
One thing he did tell me that this is no way a quick fix.
To do my work I have got some serious rebuilding of my whole spine and core.
Thanks for all your support I can't wait to carry out the heq5 outside without fear of any setbacks.
Cheers
Andy

[Oddity]

A bit late to this thread but it’s like you described my story word for word, with the exception of it being my L4/5 disc.

Mine got worse over the course of 12 months that in the end it was so bad I was completely sleep deprived, couldn’t walk more than a few metres and honest to god it felt literally like I had stood in a bear clamp.

I was in such a rotten mental state (extreme sleep deprivation will do that to you) that I developed extreme anxiety and anorexia nervosa. I genuinely lost the will to eat and was mentally shattered.

Eventually I went the nuclear option and chose surgery - fortunately my remaining disc was sufficient that I only required microsurgery (microdiscectomy). For fixing the sciatica, it was completely successful in eliminating pain, although it took the nerve time to repair (some residual big-toe and ankle numbness for a while). Nerves heal at an incredibly slow rate (which I guess you are finding out currently)

To get my back muscles functioning again (they’d been in a state of permanent lock for months) I went through a couple of months physio, but that could only get them back to about 70% functionality.

What really helped me get back to 95% function (which I’m content with) was good quality acupuncture with electrode treatment followed by intense deep tissue massage, especially breaking down the gluts in the outer butt area. They are major contributors towards pulling back and therefore spine out of place.

I eventually spaced out visits and maintained 6-weekly followups for a couple of years and eventually was able to cancel therapy and follow a daily stretch routine.

[Oddity]

Last post turned into a megapost (I feel your pain...) so I'm posting my stretch routine here separately:


Once per day, most importantly when your muscles are well warmed up (ie not when you wake up). This is important because cool muscles don’t stretch well (think of putting an elastic band in the freezer and trying to stretch it... then put it in the sun and try to stretch. A crude comparison, but it will do). The aim is to follow the steps below in order, you can stop early but don't skip steps, as your muscles gradually warm up even more from the previous stretch (which is why the first stretch seems relatively "tame").

- start lying down with knees bent and knee-rocking side to side for a couple of minutes
- still lying down, hold the knees and very gently at first, rock them in towards the chest a little, only as far as is comfortable. Initially this was barely an inch, don’t push it too soon too quickly. Over a long time this improved until I could roll my whole body back
- now stand against the wall and, leaning back, bend your knees slightly and flatten the curve of your lower spine so that it’s flush against the wall. keeping the lower back flush against the wall, gradually reach down to one side as far as is comfortable (again, don’t push it) and then reach down the other side. Reach side-to-side for at least 1 minute, all the while aiming to keep the lower spine flattened to the wall
- next, stand in a clear space with legs apart the same distance as shoulders. Bend knees slightly. Reach one arm forward, rotating your lower back a little (as always, only as far as is comfortable). Then rotate the other way and reach the other hand forward. Repeat for a minute, as if reeling in a rope, focusing on back rotation only as far as is comfortable.
- finally stand half a metre away from a very sturdy pole (one that will safely take your weight). Hold on to the pole at waist height and put your weight backwards as you hold on, gradually stretching forwards and leaning backwards at the same time as you hold on to the pole. Gently - don't push it while you are still recovering. In time you’ll be able to lean more and get a good back stretch going.

Hope some of this helps!

[mynameiscd]

Im normally not the sort of guy who believes in miracles but 2 sessions of remedial therapy in walking straight have only a bit of pain in my leg.
My lower back is just a minor discomfort and ive cut all Tramadol and Panadine forte.
I can't believe what i was like 2 days ago until now.
Im nowhere near cured but the pain has 90% disappeared.
This guy just looked at my back saw what was out and first thing used a tens machine which turned from agony to sheer bliss.
Next was a laser thing up and down the individual nerves to find out what muscles were pulling my spine out and squashing the disc.
He found the muscle and put me in a twisted position that hurt then used this keneisio tape and physically held my spine and the pain stopped for the first time for over two weeks!!!!!
I know this sounds a bit airy fairy but this guy is a well know remedial therapist who does a lot of work with professional football players.
He did some more pressure point stuff with a bit of deep massage but only in small but multiple areas.
It really felt like switches been turned off and some been turned on.
I've been sent home for 2 days to just gently walk around but do not lift or stretch yet.
Back on Friday for a little more then i should be able to do some mild exercise.
He told me I've still got a long way to go to rebuild the structure of my whole spine and core but with a slow build up I should be back at full time work in a couple of months but only if I take it easy.
Thanks for everyone's support.
PS Thanks Andrew for the detailed stretches etc.
They sound very similar what Danny will give me.
2 days ago I was so depressed looking down a long and painful future and today I'm a completely a new person with a second chance not to completely destroy my back
Cheers to everyone who has given me encouragement especially my wife who has been caring for me without her i would still be in a ball on the floor crying my eyes out.

Keep you all posted

[xelasnave]

Hi Andy
Great the hear things are getting better.
Problem management has a great deal to do with attitude and it is hard to maintain a good attitude when you miss sleep.
So try and relax even if unable to sleep.
I have a self talk routine and it really helps... it is a count your blessings thing really ...statements made to off set the problems...but the goal is to relax as pain seems to come harser if you are tired and up tight.
I really hope things keep getting better.
Alex

[casstony]

It does sound airy fairy but, whatever works :)

I've got a chronic condition and tried a hundred airy fairy treatments over the years; mostly it was a waste of money but I found two over the counter substances with potency similar to what would be expected from a prescription medication.

[Oddity]

Glad to hear it Andy. Particularly impressive that you were prepared to head to Adelaide to resolve it. Having been through it I'm always keen to try to help sciatica sufferers improve, so I'll add Bowen therapy to the list of suggestions in future.