Asi 183mm

[Merlin66]

Anyone tried this camera?
The specs look interesting.
Can it do 2x2 binning??

[Camelopardalis]

It’s a bigger version of the 178 only with a 12-bit ADC.

It should be pretty interesting. I’m experimenting with a 178 and it can deliver the goods on a good night.

Dunno about binning....suspect not, in hardware.

[Merlin66]

Thanks for that.
Can you get 2 x 2 binning with the ASI 178?

[kens]

By their architecture, CMOS sensors cannot bin the same way as CCDs - only after the ADC so there is no read noise benefit.

[Merlin66]

Yes,
I was just reading the same....no Cmos binning.
Oversampling could become a way of life....

[Camelopardalis]

There is the software/driver binning, but it’s just downsampling.

The read noise of these things is so low I suspect the designers figure there’s no point in binning :shrug:

[Merlin66]

I was thinking of the binning to get a more appropriate plate scale and sampling rather than any SNR improvement....

[Camelopardalis]

In which case, the ASI1600 might be worth considering. 3.8 micron pixels, not quite as high QE, but it has demonstrated excellent linearity in one review I saw, comparing with the ICX694.

[Merlin66]

Yeah, Could be a good solution, but the current pricing is well beyond me....
If my ol' DMK51 (4.4micron pixel) could only handle USB3 I'd probably still be happy.
I'm finding for solar imaging - full disk - that the great frame rates of the ASI 174 undersamples with 5.86micron pixels.
Maybe the ASI 178MM with 2.4micron and a chip 7.4 x 5mm could just work...the cheapest option...

[Camelopardalis]

Ken, it depends on what kind of frame rate you're after.

The higher pixel density of the 183/178 means that you get fewer frames per arc second. I'd consult the specs on ZWO's camera pages before settling on one or the other. For example the 178 is 30fps at the full 6MP, or 60fps if you drop it down to 8-bit mode. If you can squeeze it in, and tolerate the relatively low frame rates, I'd imagine solar is an area where the 14-bit ADC of the 178 might be useful (likewise for lunar).

Alternatively, the 290 is a bit of a middle ground, although it's quite small. The 1600 has been around a couple of years now so they do crop up on the used market also.

[Merlin66]

Yeah,
The 290 is ruled out on chip size.
I'm currently running up to 140 fps on the ASI 174 :eyepop:
(even higher on the spectroheliograph)
Frame rates around the 30 fps + are probably the compromise....

[Camelopardalis]

:eyepop: yeah that’s good going.

The 178 will go higher with fewer rows, i.e. if you don’t need the full height of the chip. And in 8-bit mode of course.

[Merlin66]

For full solar disk I need 5 x 5mm minimum, with maximum frame rate and small pixel size.....may be the 178 could just pull it.....

[kens]

Its the CMOS architecture. With CCD there is just one ADC. The electrons in each row are shifted down then on the bottom row, each pixel gets shifted to be read and digitised in the ADC. To bin 2x2, two rows are shifted down (and their electrons combined) and then two pixels get shifted to the read circuitry.

With CMOS there is an ADC on each row so the pixels on each row get shifted together to their respective read circuits and ADCs so there is no opportunity to combine the charges from each row before reading

[Merlin66]

Decisions, decisions......
The ASI 178 would just meet the solar needs on the 102/500 and has reasonable frame rates.
The ASI 183 has a large enough chip to be used on both the 102/500 and the TS102 (well almost).......

[h0ughy]

get both, cameras and imaging is just like golf - you need the right club to kill that photon;)

[Merlin66]

David,
I wish life was so simple....
When you get to retirement and no income....things unfortunately look a little different.
I’m only glad I managed to buy the “big stuff” many years ago; now I just have to use it!!!

[h0ughy]

you can play the whole course with a putter;) lol done that:D

i fully understand that Ken. do you realise i have a brand new moravian 8300 with a 9 position filter wheel and filters unused. one day..... and i spent over 6k on it

[Camelopardalis]

Tough call...the 183 is almost double the price of the 178, but then it’s over 3x the sensor real estate :shrug:

[Camelopardalis]

If I were you, I’d sell it while still fresh, and while there’s still demand for ropey old CCDs ;)

Sony have already announced, and are shipping some models of their 3rd generation CMOS sensors that surpass even their CCDs...and the KAF chips were never a match for the Sony sensors from a noise perspective.