climate change

[speach]

This is something the climate skeptics should read, it really doesn't matter weather the climate is changing because of burning fossil fuels or any other means, it is changing and if we just go oh hum oh hum the world as we know it will change and a lot of the fertile land will disappear making food production even more problematic to the ever increasing population. A rise of 50 m in the sea level will affect Australia drastically, Mildura will be on the coast lake Eyre will be under the sea. So it's it time we stopped arguing why the world is warming and concentrated on planning for a "water world" Kevin Kosner may have been right. (**** Film)

https://www.nature.com/news/antarctica-s-sleeping-ice-giant-could-wake-soon-1.21808?utm_source=FBK_NatureNews&sf176852357=1

[blindman]

Warming?
Seems that Russian scientists were right. Now mini ice age is coming.

[JA]

Yes, well we're certainly overdue for it ......

Best
JA

[xelasnave]

Why worry whatever happens the government will take care of it.
Alex

[el_draco]

Pick a graph, any graph and use it to deny reality... :rolleyes:

[doppler]

I think that the climate change experts should have just stuck with reducing air pollution as their main focus, something that everyone could see and believe, instead of trying to scare people into compliance with doom predictions (climate change).
The hole in the ozone layer campaign went smoothly and everyone quickly adapted to the changes required.

[JA]

Hello El D,

How do you feel what I have presented (the graph above) denies reality?

Best
JA

[w0mbat]

Well here is another graph of CO2 measured at Cape Grim in western Tasmania where the air is just about the cleanest in the world. As you can see the CO2 level is higher now than at any time in the Russian graph. It seems it has not been this high for at least 800000 years.
I believe that the effect of the CO2 level will overwhelm other cyclical effects.
Ian

[xelasnave]

Change to NP and the world will be saved.
Alex

[el_draco]

Simple... it will be used by the "sceptics" (read: morons) to say that everything will be okay but the reality is simple; the CO2 rise in the atmosphere is negating the cooling effect completely. Hence, when the cooling cycle ends... 'Fry baby fry". The graphs below show it and we wont be returning to any semblance of "normality", period. :shrug:

[el_draco]

Slight difference there. We had to eliminate CFC's and alternatives were available. To fix Global warming we need to kill off about 4 billion human rodents, completely change economic theory and give up the desire to have a bigger dick than everyone else.
Not gunna happen "smoothly" I suspect :rolleyes:

[pgc hunter]

Hopefully no one is stupid enough to buy waterfront property in Mildura then.

Good thing this thread came along, as I'm out of toilet paper and was just about to head to the shops. Saved me the trip :)

[FlashDrive]

Nice one Alex ....:lol:

[strongmanmike]

Aaah thaaank God, fiiiinally...a thread on Climate Change..... :rolleyes:

Oh yeeeah!! oo-k, so.... as with other absolutely terrible things like aaah..?.. school halls (I mean, who the hell would want one of those??), ummm?..a nation wide high quality fast optic fibre communications network (really what the F for? :rolleyes:) oh and laws preventing unfair dismissal (unfair?? sheesh what's wrong with that??)..I mean really..???...has NASA now also been demonised too and is this just some well educated, high cognitive ability, left wing (heavy head) cherry picking to support one's own ideology & dogmas :einstein:...:question: https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/9/

:rofl:

Sarcastic Mike

[h0ughy]

guys, its new years eve, the mods would like a nice rest and these things go well like a lit match in a gun powder shop. if you cant play nice then you all get a rest and a few posts missing......HAPPY NEW YEAR GENTLEMEN

[strongmanmike]

Yeah but it's fun to watch and a good laugh :P....sorry.....:question: :help:

[astroron]

Yes while the Siberian tundra is thawing out and pouring millions of tons of Methane into the atmosphere.
The North west passage is navigable for large ships all year round for the first time in many centuries.
Glaciers melting,sea levels rising etc.
But global warming aint happening.:question:
Cheers:thumbsup:

[JA]

Hi Ron,

I don't recall saying that global warming wasn't happening.;) I just posted a graph illuminating some of the earth's past temperature cycles. Out of interest the examples you cited now (above) would in all likelyhood also have occurred when it was similarly warm during previous interglacial periods.

What's really interesting (and fortunate for mankind) is how long and stable our current interglacial period has been - ~12,000 years, especially given the relative brevity of the past 3 or more over the last several hundred thousand years,of something like half that length.

Best
JA

[jenchris]

The way I see it.
North pole ice melts.
Gulf stream stops
North pole freezes
Gulf strwam does not start up for 10,000 years. About the length of the next ice age.
Say goodbye to Europe.

[multiweb]

:lol: So... there's no denying you can feel the heat? Happy new year. :sunny:

[el_draco]

Melbourne is dumping 14 tons of gunpowder in the air... and nobody is complaining :shrug: ... and all in the name of out doing skidney :rofl: Burn baby burn... :lol:

[Shiraz]

the Vostok ice core data point to the real nature of the problem - the CO2 level in the past ~1/2 million years has bounced about in the region between about 180 and 300ppm.

Not any more - we have now pushed it past 400ppm and it is still rising rapidly. This is uncharted territory and we are running an uncontrolled experiment with our only life support system. Modified graph shows where we are now.

[skysurfer]

Only 14 tons once a year?
Cars in cities and coal fired power stations are far worse: the same amount of NOx and particulate matter every day ! And nobody cares.

[speach]

It really doesn't matter to me how hot the climate is getting, I've got 15 years at the most before I'm burnt to add to the co2 in the atmosphere; my children well maybe. My grand children that's another story they will be affected and there's no argument about that.

[xelasnave]

Does anyone have a plan as to how the problem can be fixed?
Alex

[AndrewJ]

Gday Alex

Bird flu mutates and affects humans.
Nothing will happen until population growth is stopped and then reversed to a sustainable level. Nothing "controlled by humans" will achieve that now, so it will be up to mother nature.

Andrew

[xelasnave]

I have faith that the donald will save us, he could reduce world population and provide a thick dust cover with his remote button thingy.
Alex

[Shiraz]

Don't think that there are many meaningful plans Alex, but good things are happening in spite of the best efforts of the old guard and the total failure of many governments to provide consistent leadership.

Money talks and solar and wind power have recently become more cost effective than new fossil fuel power. Transport systems based on electric vehicles are rapidly becoming more than competitive. Efficient housing is affordable and conservative agricultural practices are demonstrably cost effective. What would have been unthinkable pipe dreaming not too long ago is rapidly becoming "no brainer" country. The biggest impediment to our grandkids' futures will be the current withdrawal of the US from the civilised world.

[HawkRAO]

The thing that talks to me about this graph is that CO2 and temperature are linked in this data (IMO). Whether temperature is the 'horse' or the 'cart' can be argued - however (from the data presented) they are linked IMO. The other thing that pops out for me is that the transition to warmer levels from the ice-ages has a fast rise-time, while the drift into ice-ages is a slower decline with a looser linking between CO2 and temperature.

But the part that really gets my attention is that the onset of ice-ages seems to be held off by a lagging high CO2 level. If you compare the fall of temperature in the last ice-age to previous ones you can see that there is a correlation between continuing high CO2 levels and a slower decline in temperature. The graph suggests that the current warm period should be in decline about now, but temperatures seems to be bobbing along. The difference is that now human activity has sent CO2 upwards independent of previous drivers - if CO2 was the 'cart' it has now broken free from the 'horse'. The consequences of that are unknown. It would unwise not to be concerned. My uneducated guess is that it just possible that AGW will be somewhat mitigated by the next cooling period and consequently the argument about AGW will run on for decades. On the upside it might give the human race time to adapt to a low emission future.

[xelasnave]

Solar makes economic sense.
If all houses had a couple of panels for electricity and a couple to heat water the power bills would be less.
Anyways things will work out.
Man either fixes the problem or nature hits back.
Alex

[el_draco]

Yep, read below

[xelasnave]

I presume it is the line re economists and liking them to cancer cells which is somewhat unkind.

But you suggest nothing to help and I expected so much.

I have decided to develop a solar powered machine that will remove co2 from the air and provide shade.
I am going to call it a tree.
Alex

[The_bluester]

The second best day to plant it being today of course.

[xelasnave]

I have enough trees I think but I wonder how many trees per person to suck out the co2.
Alex

[alan meehan]

GEEZ alex don't leave to polies to fix that's for sure but I like your bit were nature takes over this would happen
AL

[Shiraz]

Looks like new forests could only remove a small fraction of the junk we are putting up there Alex - maybe a couple of percent https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/nov/29/planting-trees-climate-change

[Visionary]

Alex, clearly it's time for another load of Pink Batts to be placed in the Countries collective ceiling void.
David

[doppler]

There was nothing wrong with the "pink bats" program, I got insulation in my roof through the program. The problem was greedy installers not training their staff on safely working in the roof cavity, and in the case of QLD the lax building standards regarding the placement of wiring in the roof cavity (out of site out of mind).
I think the next program should be subsidized power walls to get houses of grid.
In the longer term I think science will find a solution and if there can be money made the process will happen much faster. This looks interesting https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160804171642.htm

[Visionary]

Clearly, we need some more Pink Batts in the collective National roof void.

[xelasnave]

Insulation is a help as presumably one needs less energy to maintain a satisfactory temperature of in a building.
Getting folk over to solar hot water would be a great way to save energy.
Banning fridges in the work place a good idea.

Banning racing.

But the reality power suppliers dont want to supply less they want to sell more.

And for most folk actually doing something is sortta like contributing to the starving of the world...Oh I am very concerned.... pass the roast beef and gravy.

Stop racing or the burn out at summer nats...you must be joking that is only a small contribution and because you threaten to take away my enjoyment I now think the whole thing is nonsence.
Ban fireworks heck no...but every bit helps...maybe but dont ever suggest fireworks are not necessary.

And it is nonsence to believe anything will be done.

Check out Al Gores house, cars and general energy consumption.
Dont do as I do do as I say...and its not about the money or that my investements will take off if you buy my ideas.

Shake hands count your fingers.

But Al is an excellent example of why nothing will get done unless big money changes hands, which has nothing to do with helping it is just about money but if something good comes of it folk will claim it was their desire to contribute and the money...dont mention money this is not about money we are heros dont you know.
Sure and the fantasy unfolds.

Then lurking in the background is the nuclear power solution...they remind me of a drug pusher promising that smack or ice will make everything better but neglecting to present any downside or help you determine the realality of ongoing cost.

Accidents!!! No that was in the past accidents dont happen these days if you think other wise you are an alarmist...gee I guess NP is the only answer, to whom do I write the check?

Trust me the man with his finger on the button may be our best hope.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Pink bats were only ever about pumping cash into the economy as were various other stratagies at the time.
They never were about saving the planet they were about saving Australia.
They are a good idea and should make life better for anyone who installs them.
Alex

[doppler]

Ah NP, here's a list that might surprise some, it certainly surprised me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_stations

[xelasnave]

On the one hand that worries me on the other I guess I should increase my holding in Rio Tinto.
Alex

[xelasnave]

And the more coal mines we can close the higher the price for coal.
Close the mines I say.
Alex

[PCH]

Sounding a bit like Maggie Thatcher, Alex ;)

[xelasnave]

I hope not she is dead.
Alex