life goes on in the US

[Shiraz]

another shooting in the US. Only 26 dead this time and only one gun instead of the 23 used in Nevada - it was a military killing machine like this http://www.ruger.com/products/ar556/models.html. We have the assurance that tougher gun laws would have made no difference - the President said it, so it must be true.

The maker of the automatic gun stock used in the Nevada massacre is back on the market as well and business seems to be booming. https://www.npr.org/2017/11/07/562505431/leading-bump-stock-manufacturer-to-resume-sales

My daughter lives in Texas (same town the latest nut job came from). She is so worried that her kids will be killed by gunshot that she is going to bring them to Australia for their high school years. http://keranews.org/post/heres-what-you-should-know-about-open-carry-texas

Can we please resist the pressure from the gun lobby and keep the insanity away from our country. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-20/shooting-with-david-leyonhjelm/7950732

cheers Ray

[graham.hobart]

Here here :thumbsup:

[casstony]

Having seen what happens in the US I think there's very little risk of Australians voting to flood our country with guns.

Shooting things with a camera is much more fun.

[Shiraz]

:thumbsup:



Hopefully Tony, but what about the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party? - their policy could have been written by the NRA (maybe it was):

The Commonwealth Government has no Constitutional authority for the legislation and regulation of firearms laws other than those which apply to the Customs Act. Our firearms policies, Federal and State, are based on one fact: Criminals do not obey the law! As such, the vast majority of our rules and regulations must be focused on the illegal firearms market, not law abiding firearms owners.

Policies

- Repeal the 1996 National Firearms Agreement of COAG on the basis it has failed to increase public safety.
- Vehemently oppose the establishment of a Commonwealth Firearms Registry, or any other interference by the Commonwealth in the constitutional authority of the States to legislate the ownership and use of firearms.
- Establish a genuine reason for family and home protection for lawful possession of a firearm.
- Abolish the registration of category A and B firearms with savings to be reinvested into front line crime prevention.
- Remove Federal red tape regulation for firearms imports where relevant State and Territory requirements have been met.
- Support and promote Australian firearm manufacturers and suppliers for domestic supply and government contracts.
- Table a Bill outlawing animal liberation based hate campaigning and terrorism.
- Expand self-defence rights and non-lethal means of protection.
- Support and promote national education and safety programs for responsible firearms ownership and use.
- Increase funding to ‘Shooting Australia’.
- Introduce mandatory sentencing for Commonwealth firearms offences.

[AstralTraveller]

I wonder how many mass killers have prior criminal records? Some certainly would but I suspect that the majority are law abiding citizens up until the moment they unleash their terror.

[raymo]

Ever since I first visited the U.S. in the late 1950s, and with every
subsequent visit, [some of which were quite extended] to numerous different areas, I have felt more and more that it is a beautiful land occupied
largely by insular ignoramuses that sincerely believe that the U.S. is
the be all and end all of everything. If it's not American it's third rate,
or worse. I am hoping to live long enough to see them eventually
realise to their horror, that China will probably eclipse them as the leading world power. This will probably get deleted.
raymo

[glend]

The Roman's never saw the fall of Rome coming either.

[casstony]

There are small groups of nutters everywhere who feel their rights are being infringed upon.

People who have a legitimate use for a gun can already own one under current laws: my cousin does long range target shooting, farmers can have a gun for feral animals, etc.
There's simply no need for everyone to have a gun. I wouldn't mind being able to own pepper spray for self defence though.

[casstony]

Raymo, I feel the biggest difference between Americans and Australians is that the US is truly dominated by corporations who maintain a fearful, dog-eat-dog climate amongst the population. It's easier to be a millionaire and easier to end up living in poverty - bigger wealth divide.

Otherwise individual yanks are much the same as people here, even if they never studied geography :)

[traveller]

the gun buy back is one of the better policies under Howard, but had bipartisan support. I wonder if our politicians will have the same maturity if something like that happens now, given the current personality politics being played out at the moment.

also worth remembering that America was born out of revolution/armed revolt against the British, so distrust of authority/government and self protection is part of their history.

agree with big corporations buying out capitol hill, but we are not that far behind here in Aust.

[raymo]

Tony, I have to say that Yanks in their own country are largely friendly
and helpful, [twice they helped me to empty my pockets], as opposed to many Yank tourists who can be quite obnoxious; thinking they have
something to prove, I suppose.
And yes, 27% of Yanks live on or below the poverty line.
Bo, you'd have thought that 250yrs was time enough to water down that sentiment a bit.
raymo

[el_draco]

I lived there for a year back in the 80's. I left L.A. just as the riots began and spent a nerve wracking hour heading out of town towards Nevada whilst people were blasting each other on the freeways. Friggin insane.

On arrival in Nevada, there was an audible gasp when I admitted that, back in Oz, I didn't own a gun... For my own "safety", I was then instructed in the use of the guns that were kept in the "truck" I was given for my personal use; They INCLUDED a 9mm pistol, a long barrel magnum and a 12 guage, pump action shot gun. I declined the military style rifle... M16 from memory.

Bloody lunatic country!

[casstony]

I hope we don't get judged by the behaviour of young aussie males on tour ;)

[Wavytone]

The current American culture is dreadful IMHO.

The majority of yank movies are so crude lately - mostly having plots along the line of “Lone hero saves the world - with his great big GUN”.

And their answer to everything is to shoot the problem - human or otherwise.

If the problem is large enough they send in the military.

The right to bear arms... has only one purpose.. shooting people ideally in large numbers. There is at the very least an implied right to carry out murder - which in limited circumstances is indeed the case in the US, thinly disguised as “accidental shooting”.

[raymo]

I hear what you're saying Tony; I am frequently embarrassed by the
behaviour of drunken Aussies [mainly between late teens and 50s] in
Bali, although it is a different type of obnoxiousness from the Yank
I want it, and I want it now type.
raymo

[Imme]

Wavytone....had to laugh as I read this and then saw your loving words about DHL in your signature.....there are exceptions right?:lol:

[Camelopardalis]

Speaking from personal experience, Aussies do pretty well abroad IMO, you might curse them now but that’s one of the reasons I seized the opportunity to visit! Wish I could say the same for my own nationals...no aspirations can come from their actions these days.

The cultures on the other sides of the big pond are very different...it’d be nice if Australia was left to develop its own future rather than imbibe too much of the Cool-Aid...it’s just sugar, salt and water after all :shrug: but the global media seems determined to commercialise everything. I’m over Amazon already :lol:

[blindman]

GUN MURDERS DRIVEN BY POVERTY AND INEQUALITY, NOT GUN AVAILABILITY
https://ssaa.org.au/news-resources/research-archive/gun-murders-driven-by-poverty-and-inequality-not-gun-availability

Keep in mind probably half of recently shootings were hoax anyway.

[Shiraz]

good point - there is clearly more at play than just gun availability, since some countries with high gun ownership have much lower homicide rates than the USA.

In general though, I cannot see that military weapons have any place in normal society and the succession of mass slayings could not have taken place if those weapons were simply not available. For crying out loud, the Bushmaster site advertises a 50cal sniper rifle with silencer https://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/ba50-bolt-action/ba50-rifle That thing is designed for a single purpose and it isn't rabbit shooting. Some (maybe most) weapons have no positive value in a modern society and the police forces in the US must be at their wits end trying to work out how to deal with them. I am hopeful that the worst aspects of the US infatuation with guns does not take hold here and that we keep strong laws that completely outlaw military style weapons.

as for some shootings being hoaxes, the victims' families may have a different perspective.

[Tropo-Bob]

I think a problem within the USA is that they do not have enough Annual Leave (my understanding is only 2 weeks.) So the average citizen does not have enough time to travel, see the World and obtain a better understanding of it. This leads to a very inward looking society. Those who do travel are mainly students or retirees.

We have in better in Oz, although I also have major reservations on how some Aussies behave when abroad.

Do U know that we are the only nation that has Long Service Leave? (It is a hangover from the old days when the bureaucracy gave Government workers enough time to see the old country:- England. A month to travel there, a month to be there and a month to travel back, every 10 years.)

LSL is outdated, and now that I am retired; it should go. :ashamed::whistle:

[xelasnave]

Let me be the first to bite unless I am already too late.

Here is me thinking if one did not have a gun one could not commit a gun murder.

As to your second line...that is indeed interesting care to share your authority for such a conclusion.

Alex

[xelasnave]

I blame Hollywood the fountain of USA culture.

Alex

[Shiraz]

Guessing that it could have been Alex Jones - possibly the most corrosive and unprincipled of all the misinformation sources.
https://www.infowars.com/fbi-says-no-one-killed-at-sandy-hook/
https://www.infowars.com/texas-church-massacre-what-theyre-not-telling-you/

etc. etc. ad nauseam

[xelasnave]

Oh dear they really have their problems over there.

I can not fathom how anyone can kill another let alone to gun down crowds of folk.

Alex

[Exfso]

At least the terrorists don't have to over exert themselves in the US, the locals are doing a good job of killing themselves off.:eyepop:

[raymo]

With a population of well over 300 million, the mass murderers are not
going to run out of targets any time soon.
raymo of targets

[Robair]

We are potentially fooling ourselves if we believe we can understand America's attitude to gun ownership and their seeming indifference to the endless stream of mass shootings. In conversation with some of my US of A mates over the years they have no concept whatsoever that myself like virtually all Australians have, no need to own a gun, no interest in owning a gun, nor any need for our gun laws to change. Our attitude to guns quite frankly scares and gobsmacks them just as much as we are gobsmacked by the fact a hand held howitzer is only a trip to Walmart away.
As with most things as soon as privilege migrates to a right abuse will likely occur.
Its a sad state of affairs indeed..

Rob B

[julianh72]

I said in a post recently that there was as special place at the bottom of my voting slip held for Pauline Hanson's One Nation, but the Shooters may well claim this spot if they ever stand in my electorate (unlikely - inner city neighbourhood) or Senate (quite likely - Queensland).

[ZeroID]

USA just seems to be a horror story continuously unfolding. The answer to everything is a gun, all problems can be resolved by killing your protagonist. Their stance is borne out of their ignorance of the rest of the world and the righteousness of the all-American way. Their Bible belt is as extreme as any terrorist group globally.

I know there are good people amongst them but the other factors are too scary to risk. My step son is over there now for a short stop on his way to Canada. I'm holding my breath till he moves on.

I'm staying well clear of them

[casstony]

There are extremists amongst the good majority. It's a mistake to let nutty minorities tarnish a whole people.

I suspect people around the world are much the same; ie. they primarily want to lead a peaceful life with a job and opportunities for their kids and they're/we're easily manipulated by immoral leaders.

[raymo]

If you want to hear something bizarre, how about this. Back in the late 70s
I was employed by the U.S. Navy at the Harold E. Holt base in Exmouth,
W.A. The American wives and children, and some of the men, wouldn't use our water for drinking or washing their hair. A tanker came in from Singapore
every few months, and filled their tanks.
raymo

[AndrewJ]

You probably didnt put enough sugar in your water.

Andrew
( boiled many hot water urns full of vinegar to get rid of the layers of calcium deposits when up that way.
ie the water was pretty rough :-) )

[PCH]

Interesting, and sounds bizarre. But then again I have no idea how long we've had potable water in WA. Anyone have any ideas on that?

And for the record Raymo, we can't drink the water that come out of our taps here in the Perth metro either. I'm not sure what they add but the taste is awful so we have to use a Brittax filter jug.

[raymo]

Actually,I understand them not wanting to drink it, but washing their hair??
With their abysmal pay, I suppose they were entitled to a few perks.
My next door neighbour was a Chief Petty Officer, and I was in charge of
maintenance at their three power stations, and my salary was over twice
his, god knows what the ordinary seamen were paid.
raymo

[AndrewJ]

Gday Raymo

I can fully understand why.
I was at Karratha in the mid eighties and water came from the Harding dam. After washing your hair, no gel was reqd to get that trendy "spiky" look :-)

Andrew

[PCH]

Yeah Ray, but don't confuse being a Chief Petty Officer with being an officer cos they're not. Sure their rank includes the word 'officer', but they're just the highest ranking crew member and live and eat in the crews section of the accomodation. On merchant ships that's how it was anyway.

[raymo]

Paul, I was a Chief Engineer in the British Merchant Navy, and am well aware
of the situation vis a vis Chief Petty Officers.The fact remains that he was
either five or six ranks from the bottom of the ladder. CPOs and their
equivalent ranks in the other Australian armed services make a very
comfortable living. The U.S. armed forces were always poorly paid; I don't
know if it has changed in recent times.
raymo

[blindman]

Maybe you should look at UT about Las Vegas shooting with some real footages,
questions and inconsistencies. You should comprehend that Wiki is not authority.

[PCH]

Got it Ray, - I was a sparky for about 10 years with BP before coming here in the late 80s. I hadn't realised the US pay rate was so poor. I was certainly happy with my conditions, and I'd be pretty sure you were too ;)

[raymo]

Sorry for the hijack, but Paul, I should qualify my statement by saying
that I was referring to enlisted men[and women]; I don't know how well
their officers are paid.
raymo

[xelasnave]

What would I discover?

If you have a proposition please present it and a more worthy authority than Wiki so I can get what you are driving at...

Thanks

Alex

[Shiraz]

Here is the philosophy. Guns are noble symbols of freedom, bravery, wisdom, patriotism, manliness etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KKAGKhK6wI

hard to comprehend, but this is actually for real!

[raymo]

I just watched the world's shortest horror film.
raymo

[xelasnave]

The USA is not the only place where folk hold strange ideas and beliefs.
And there are many places in the world where guns and aggression are somewhat normal.
Alex

[raymo]

It's the only one I can think of off of the top of my head that thinks of
itself as a first world country,[although I imagine that the 27% of the
population on or below the poverty line might dispute that].
raymo

[clive milne]

It would be a tough choice between Alex and Rupert... or maybe David Icke as a dark horse, outside bet.


fwiw) There's a bit more to Alex Jones than the unhinged trouble maker that is his internet persona. That side of him is actually an act.

Several members of Alex's family (including his father) are former or current employees of the CIA and the same is true of his extended family.

A perusal of the Linkedin profiles of his staff is interesting... Alex seems to like hiring interns of the private security outfit called Stratfor: ~cough~ free lance - Mossad/CIA ~cough~

Alex seems to attract a particularly high percentage of zionist sponsors/benefactors. Not that there is anything intrinsically illegal in being a zionist, but it is what it is. (he is on the payroll of a couple of dozen individuals/corporations with financial interests to that end)... He who pays the piper, calls the tune...

And there's more, but you get the picture

If you really want to understand the true nature of Alex Jones, search "Hasbara"

~c

[xelasnave]

Its all a game.
Its probably not a nice game but it is what we have.The tax thing is now less news than dual citizen ship or weddings so first things first..deal with the weddings and papers and put tax avoidance off to another day but it does call for a better add that something is being done but heck that little ball rolling around thoe neat woodern tracks really shows the problem has been absolutely addressed.
And the current tourmoil happily will keep many humans very occupied.
What should be done will be done for some and not all and thats ok if some are benifited by what ever is going on ..oh the game thats what is going on.
alex

[taminga16]

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde

[xelasnave]

They have their problems but let us not forget their achievements or rather some of the great men produced there...one needs to maintain a positive balance.
They are achieving 3% growth which is good for them and good for us really and they have a president talks directly to them via twitter...all good.
alex

[clive milne]

:thumbsup:

[jwheel69]

As a citizen of the USA, I am probably in the minority. I have never owned a gun and I have no desire to have one. I live in a remote area of West Texas. I have been here for 18 years. I would also like to add, that I have fond memories of my visit to Australia in Aug. 2015.

Joe Wheelock

[Tropo-Bob]

Good on ya Joe. I have fond memories of my trip to the US.

I was a bit confused though; before I went I always admired the energy and liberalism of the northern folk (New York, Boston) and was concerned about the possible racism of the Southerns.

By the time I finished my trip, I thought the Northerns were far too keen to make a $, but the Southerners were welcoming and generous people.

I suppose I should travel more!

[jwheel69]

I am glad that you enjoyed your visit. I would like to visit your country again someday.