LONG - Help me spend my money on a 2nd scope :)

[sejanus]

thought I'd post this up to prolong cleaning the bbq for NYE a bit longer :scared:

OK, after a bit of swapping with a OTA and a fork mount setup I've managed to return back to just the eq6 & 80ED relatively unscathed financially.

I've had one of those twin dovetail adapters for the eq6 on order from matthew lovell for a little while and it should be here any day. This will run the scopes side by side rather than on top of the other.

So I need (want?) a 2nd scope. Whilst it'll be partly used to guide the 80ED, I want to do the reverse and use the 80ED to guide the 2nd scope - in other words the 2nd scope has photography in mind.

I was initially thinking just grab another C11 tube or a 10" lx200r. I haven't discounted that by any stretch, but am a bit tempted by the fast newts. f/4 or f/4.7 is a big difference to f/10 in imaging times which i think for me might be important given I'm only using a 5D and not a cooled ccd.

I understand the SCT's have a much more narrow field of view than the newtonians, which I guess can be good or bad depending on the photography involved. So far, I generally like shots with a wider field of view so thats another tick to the newtonian. I'm guessing the long focal length of the SCT will make mount stability/guiding/drift alignment more crucial.

So my options seem to be ;

sct's ;

- C11 tube $3500 (I had one of these before and loved it but never plugged a camera into it)
- LX200R (apparently some QC concerns though I've seen some great stuff from them). I think the 10" OTA is $2995.

I think both are 2800mm f/10.

- Vixen 8" R200SS newt reflector, around $1850 800mm f/4 (very fast but 800mm focal length very similar to 80ED. Still looks nice though)
- Celestron C10-NGT 10" newt reflector 1200mm f/4.7 (unsure of price as OTA, not even sure if it is available as ota)
- Skywatcher/GSO etc. 8" or 10" - unsure of details of these guys. am guessing the celestron C10-NGT is probably one of these rebranded.
- Meade 8" LXD75 schmidt newtonian. f/4 800mm. For some bizarre reason the 10" model you cannot get as an OTA. The 8" one is $1600 for OTA.

Option as a wildcard is a 152mm 'semi ED' refractor but they seem to have lots of CA. Can't remember brand.

I think if I was going to get a reflector I should try and get the 10" if the mount will support it well enough, as the 8" scopes which I'm sure will pull more resolution than the 80ED are very similar to it in focal lengths. The SCT would give the biggest contrast in usage between the 2 scopes.

Any thoughts? btw I won't be rushing this and will keep using the 80ED, but I do want a 2nd tube. :lol: :thumbsup:

cheers

Gav

[ballaratdragons]

The C10-NGT comes with the CG-5-ASGT Mount. But you can sell the mount. I'm sure there will be folks in here glad to buy it from you.

[h0ughy]

well you have a problem Sir! I, myself and me each have their own opinions, so thats why I have the ED80, a 5" Intes f10 makcass (I use this side by side with the ed80), a celestron c8 with the ed80 mounted on top, and now i have a brand spanking new meade LX200R 10" (that may or may not get christened at or before lostock with the weather and work).

your best bet at this stage would be to get this Meade LXD75 6" Newtonian OTA for $399 to have a good muck around with as you will be able to then save up for the scope of your dreams, say a tak or 120ed or better and asthe ad says "
Meade's 150mm f/5 OTA features a well corrected, parabolic primary mirror.

This OTA is designed with photography in mind so CCDs and DSLRs will easily reach focus.

Sturdy 4 vane spider provides aesthetically pleasing diffraction spikes - no need to use string like those pesky refractors!

Pyrex mirrors with silicon monoxide overcoating.

Tube rings and dovetail mount supplied allow the OTA to mount immediately on LXD55/75, EQ5/EQ6 and CG5 mounts.

This is a great low cost OTA for astrophotography - with enough aperture to go deep and a fast f/5 system.

Supplied with screw on camera adapter and extension tube and 2"1.25" adapter for visual use." ;) :lol:

good hunting, I might get one of these scopes too they seem really cheap and will be light enought for use side by side with the ed80:whistle:

[stephenmcnelley]

hOughy's idea of putting the money aside for the future scope or mount of your dreams is a sound concept....

[sejanus]

interesting idea. I never even clicked on the 6" never knew it was so dirt cheap. the 6" is $399 and the 8" is $1599! yikes.

as for a dream scope, apart from something silly like an obsession I don't really have a dream scope. I just want to take photos.

A 10" newt or sct is still tempting but h0ughys idea does have a lot of merit.

[sejanus]

:whistle:

[stephenmcnelley]

25cm and other small to medium Newts (40cm) are great for visual work and exploration, but are susceptable to vibration and wind movement unless domed or well mounted. VERY well mounted.

The 6" LXD is a great idea IMHO for fast f ratio imaging, especially when mated to such a comparatively solid mount.

Good for more than just imaging too, i have met a couple of LXD owners-8" and 10", and they swore by their scopes but then there was the meade mount and tracking etc etc.

[janoskiss]

I have the Meade LXD75 6" f/5 Newt, and optically it's a piece of junk. Star test and appalling performance indicate that the primary is spherical. At f/5 that makes for an utterly useless scope.

[Striker]

If you already have a ED80 I wouldn't be bothering with anything around the focal length range of 600mm.

The ED80 is less hassle to use not having to worry about constent collimation and cool down issues that you will have with fast Newts.

The 5D is going to give you a widefield so do you really want an even wider field with a short focal length....maybe you do...???

Some where aroung the 1000mm fl would be nice combined with your ED80 at 600mm this wouldn't demand high pointing accuracy from the mount.

[matt]

Skywatcher 8" or 10" newt OTA is exactly in this fl range

The 10" would be my pick but I enjoyed my 8" which is now the property of Omaroo ... who is very happy with it:)

[Starkler]

Another option is the Vixen VC200L (8" cassegrain). Apparently sharper than the average sct, capable of nice flat wide fields and considered by some to be the 'poor mans RC'.

[stephenmcnelley]

Very subtle and discretely phrased Steve, hOughy and i now look like complete tossers for having suggested this scope might be suitable... then thats what we get for not having owned one.
I did not know you have a 150mm LXD.

Apologies sejanus for giving you bad information.. not the intention at all:(

[janoskiss]

Nothing personal intended by my post, Stephen, at you or Houghy or anyone else. Just telling it like it is and believe me if you looked through the scope you would agree. I myself thought at the time I bought it off Stu (who only wanted the mount and had no idea the scope was a dud) that it would be a nice little ultra compact and portable scope. But like I said, it has proven to be completely useless - I cannot even sell it in good conscience. From feedback I got on CN it would seem that some of the US models are (or used to be) made with good parabolic mirrors but not the one I got.

[stephenmcnelley]

That is a very poor reflection on meade, if the scope in fact was an original meade product- it is unforgivable to flog crap grinds/unmatched primary optics to the rest of the OTA here or anywhere else. I am genuinely sorry to hear this thanks for the heads up.
It just does not make any sense for meade to have taken short cuts like this in their more humble range of reflectors.. So many by a meade in good faith of their optical qualities:(

[matt]

It happens, Stephen.

I had a fairly torrid time with a Celestron 9.25

[sejanus]

nah thats ok guys great to have different ideas chucked around and a few people chipping so we get multiple inputs on gear. the lxd75 at $400 did look very good on paper and dirt cheap but if the optics are junk then it's no good.

Striker - I agree with you regarding focal lengths. And yes I do want stuff wider than 600mm but I'll use my 5D and normal camera lenses for that - I have a whole bunch of stuff from 16mm to 300mm.

[sejanus]

hey matt did you have one of these ones?

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-content-section-10-skywatcher.htm#reflecting

mount aside, the optics were decent?

thanks

[matt]

This one

http://myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-163

[sejanus]

the 10" skywatcher one has these specs ;

SKP25012EQ6-2IN The SKP25012EQ6-2IN is the largest reflector in the Sky-Watcher Newtonian family. It is equipped with the EQ6 mount (http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/EQ6.html), a paraboloidal (http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/Parabolic.html) mirror made from Pyrex glass, diffraction-limited secondary mirror support (http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/Spider.html), 2" focuser, one 2" eyepiece, a 2"-1.25" eyepiece adapter, and a 9x50 finderscope.
Specifications
D: 254mm
F: 1200mm
F/ratio: f/4.7

[matt]

Yep. That's the 10" version.

I was linking to my old 8":)

[sejanus]

matt did you ever plug a camera into it?

[matt]

Yeah.

Did some ToUcam planetary images with it.

Nothing else, though. Have never captured DSO with any scope or camera.

[sejanus]

hey for anyone - say I am just looking at 2 scopes for the moment, the 8" and 10" skywatchers.

Do you think the EQ6 could handle the 10" photographically (assuming no wind - my backyard is very well shielded)? Or do you think the 8" would be safer.

The 8" is 1000mm and is $590. unsure of weight.
The 10" is 1200mm and is about $1150 i think. I think it is 14kg.

gotta run for the rest of the night happy new year guys

Gav

[janoskiss]

The 10" f/4.7 skywatcher is the same OTA as the one my new Saxon Dob. From what I've seen so far it has excellent optics, and it is very well made. The Dob cost me $800 from Telescope Shed so I would not pay $1150 just for the OTA. Mick Pinner has the OTA only version of the scope and he had a look at my Dob and said it is the exact same scope minus the Dob base. Would need a fairly hefty EQ mount to put it on.

[matt]

I know Steve Massey puts his 10" Skywatcher on top of an EQ6.

He reckons it's stable enough for astrophotography

[h0ughy]

well to guide with a scope that long you need aguide scope so go the 8 with the ed80 on as well. if you do the 10 you might need another way of guiding, like easy guider etc?

[ballaratdragons]

How about an ED 100 or ED 120?

[Astroman]

I have the 8" skywatcher on my EQ6 and have guided very successfully with it, I plan on putting an ED80 ontop of it when I get one, the mount will handle it fine, as for the 10" you may have small issues but I have heard of more weight being used on the EQ6 for visual... The 10" is a big tube.

[sejanus]

Looking on the web, I can see you are spot on with this - but I'm not sure if that'll make a difference to the end price :) And I'm too much of a dummy to buy the dob, and put a dovetail on it. :lol:

[sejanus]

hey h0ughy why wouldn't the ed80 be ok to guide it? I thought it would be ok as I can see guys with sct's using it to guide as well?

That said, the 8 is probably the most sensible :sadeyes:

[sejanus]

I like the refractors but the 100 is probably too close to my 80, and the 120 is pretty expensive.

[Striker]

Houghy means if you go with the 10" it may be to heavy combined with the ED80 ontop so you wont have a guide scope to use.

The 8" wont give you any problems with the ED80 ontop.

[sejanus]

I've got a twin dovetail plate thingy arriving that will let me run the scopes side by side rather than directly on top - would that help? I thought it would give it a better center of gravity.

[Striker]

Yes it can help but you may not be able to sit a 10" beside and ED80 anyway.

This will also make balancing the scope very difficult.

I know with the Losmandy side by side saddle the 8" is maximum size with the ED80 side by side.

Remembering the overall diameter of the 10" newt is not 10"..I am not sure exact measurements but I would say it's closer to 12" diameter.

[sejanus]

very good point. I didn't think of the width of the tube.

[h0ughy]

gee for 400 you can afford to have a play! Save your money for a real scope

[sejanus]

What's a real scope :) I'm never going to spend 5-7k (and the rest) on a big refractor. Realistically it'd either be a sct or a reflector. The 8" reflector is only $590 though.

[h0ughy]

Its your money, but we like to spend it for you:rofl:

[ballaratdragons]

I do like the sound of the Meade Astrophotography Scope available from Bintel.

It is set up for Astro pics and is at a great price as well! $399.

It is a 6" f5 Newt complete with Tube rings & Dovetail plate, and camera adaptor.

[sejanus]

hey ken it looked good initially but it got panned a bit earlier in thread. The 8" skywatcher f/5 is only $190 more and seems decent and as much as I'd like the 10 the 8" one prob makes sense.

I assume the shops are open tomorrow so i might find somewhere with them in stock and go look at the 8 and 10 side by side.

[sejanus]

hey i doubt anyone is awake as i write this :D but going back to my original post, anyone know much about the vixens?

Their r200ss 8" 800mm f/4 is only 5.3kg.

[sejanus]

this is the sucker ;

http://www.vixenamerica.com/Products/Default.asp?TopCatCode=TS&Fam_or_Cat=R200SS

[BigJ]

I am surprised Meade could put out (what sounds like) such a piece of junk - has anyone heard anofficial response from Meade or one of their representatives about this? Or the distributor....?

[g__day]

Just came across this post and wondered what it was you wanted to image. As the 7" MAK have fallen in price and aren't on your list I presume planets aren't your thing.

I'm using a 9.25 Carbon Fibre Celestron and it's a pleaser as an all round scope. But I'd guess in your budget you need to include electronic motor focuser (you probably don't need a temperature compensating one with a CF OTA) and the JMI or Shoestring USB Focuser adapters. Do you also have filters and camera's selected. If you have the main imaging CCD selected, what's its pixel size - as that has a bearing on your ideal scope too doesn't it?