Shhhhh don't tell the clouds

[strongmanmike]

Psst!..an FSQ106EDX4 and custom mounting rings and NJP mounting plate just arrived....:scared3: shhhhhh! don't tell the clouds :scared:

Photos added...including with beer :drink:

The scope was very well double boxed with no sign of any damage at all on the outer box so I am sure all will be well set.

This scope is a beast!

The custom rings and mounting plates are excellent and very well made, this will allow me to mount the FSQ and FLI16803 as per the ED80 in THIS (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/134719005/original) photo, the FLI will be on the FSQ and the SXVR-H694 will be on the AG12 :)

Mike

[LewisM]

Too late - go outside and look :)

You'll love it.

Now sell me your AP Starfire - it'll go perfectly with my AP Star 12ED :)

[Slawomir]

Congratulations Mike! Happy (but also cloudy) days! :lol:

[strongmanmike]

Unlike some who buy and sell scopes like used cars salesmen, it's been over 6 years since my last scope arrived....its very exciting :D

Lewis my AP Starfire 152mm F7.5 EDF with 4" FF is one of only two units that Roland made...you couldn't afford it :lol:

Mike

[gregbradley]

Fantastic. One of the great classis scopes. Enjoy it. I look forward to your 16803 widefield nirvana shots.

Just in time for all those Sagittarius targets. Lagoon and Trifid maybe? NGC6188.

Greg.

[Marke]

That's awesome mate I know how you feel and looking forward to seeing what you can do with it ����

[Atmos]

:windy: :cloudy: :lol: :thumbsup:

[LewisM]

Why not? I could sell a kid or 2. :rofl::eyepop:

Your snide side remark just tickles my ribcage - hey, my current Tak has been with me 6 months, so whatcha sayin'? :P

[Slawomir]

Mike, people often change scopes when they are not really happy with them and are continuously looking for a decent one. Perhaps not all TAKs are as good as the legend holds... ;) :lol: :scared3:

Did you know? FSQs are actually crafted by Roland, that's why he has little time left for making Starfires and thus we have a long waiting list for AP scopes...

[issdaol]

Congrats :thumbsup:

Now I know who to blame for the change in forecast this week :mad2:

My new Baader Mark V bino's are destined to never be used the way things are going with you guys buying and selling scopes all the time !! :P

[LewisM]

Laughing my man-boobs off...

Mike finally gets his FSQ, and the same day, Paul Haese puts his up for sale :) :P :D :) :P :D

[issdaol]

What will you play with now lewis !?!?!? :rofl:

[LewisM]

Other man bits - MY OWN!

Talk about junk :rofl:

[Tony_]

Nice scope Mike!
If you're worried about the clouds move to Melbourne - it's so cloudy here the only thing you have to worry about is the occasional clear night that disturbs your sleep.

Tony.

[strongmanmike]

Paul did let me know about his FSQ coming up for sale but it was the night I had just 10min earlier sent the money for this baby....plus this is the EDX4 :2thumbs:

Photos attached to original post :drink:

Now to order all the other required bits...MMOAG, precise parts adaptors, Aurora flat panel etc....

Mike

[Slawomir]

Your new baby looks beautiful. I see you celebrated her arrival with a glass of ice tea :thumbsup:

[LewisM]

Tak magic

[strongmanmike]

Aaaah yeeees......hic! :P

[RobF]

OOOOOoooooooo !!!!
:thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Greg :thumbsup:

I have just ordered the Aurora flat panel from Gerd and the MMOAG, FLI to FSQ precise parts adaptors and Technical innovation adaptors for the Robo Focus from OPT, so I am a little way off from imaging yet, perhaps in a month ..?

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Ha ha, yeah maybe! :)



Really??? no, I didn't know that :eyepop: you sure? :shrug: I know Orion Optics UK make ASA their mirrors for their Fast N series Newts...who would'a thunk it...?

[Atmos]

Why didn't you get a FSQ130 Mike? Has a huge 110mm imaging circle and the reducer (down to F/3.6) may even be able to handle the FLI16803 :P So much disposable imaging circle at F/5 :lol:

[strongmanmike]

Funnily enough :whistle: I did actually get permission from SWMBO to buy one of those :eyepop: :lol: ...but keeping calm and letting logic and sense prevail, I wanted the luxury of having two scopes, one high res narrow field and the other wide field, mounted together, I really didn't want to have to dismount the AG12 to use the wide field scope and I was preeeetty sure even the tough old NJP would have struggled under that load with the AG12, FSQ130, FLI16803, CFW-5-7, SXVH694, SXFW, Atlas focuser, MMOAG and two lodestars :eyepop:

:thumbsup:

Mike

[Slawomir]

FLI-50100 would give even wider fov...just saying :lol:

[Wavytone]

Mike no, blame me for the clouds. Something far more exotic, rare and with a pedigree coming this way ;)... a Santel 9".

[multiweb]

Looks good. You'll have fun with it. What's the offset for with the dovetail?

[SimmoW]

Lovely Mike! Yeah I saw Paul's FSQ go up for sale, what a coincidence!

At least you'll finally get some decent images...:P :P :P :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[strongmanmike]

Weeelll...if you actually read posts you would know Marc :rolleyes: :lol:

Check out the last line above and the link, it should be obvious ;)

Mike

[strongmanmike]

:lol:...yeah I know :thumbsup:...but many things are gunna look so small in that whopping great field....

[LewisM]

Geez, don't take a photo of yerself with it then - you'll be PeeWee Mike, not Strongman Mike.:rofl:

[marc4darkskies]

Finally converted to Takahashi eh - good stuff!! You won't regret it! BUT, where's the usual picture of your big grinning face holding the baby??

[multiweb]

ah... I see. Looks complicated. Couldn't you load it on top of the AG12? Everything in line. Easier to balance too. Your mount should take the extra length. :shrug:

[strongmanmike]

Much easier to have'em tandem, plus mounting on top would require much more counterbalance...I already have some trepidations about the load on the NJP :scared2:

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Yes, I thought about it.. but went with the beer instead....more subtle :lol:

Mike

[Slawomir]

Yes, it's definitely much better to keep telescopes as close as possible to the mount head to reduce inertial moment arm. AP has a nice explanation about that: http://www.astro-physics.com/products/accessories/mounting_acc/Balance_to_Optimize_Guiding.pdf

[Atmos]

If mounting is really such an issue maybe you should just give it to me with my mount that I'm completely under mounting with my setup ;)

[traveller]

Didn't know your FSQ drinks beer, ale, bitter or pilsner? :P

[strongmanmike]

Exactly my thoughts :)



Ok Col, Ill consider your request....for a few years and then give you an answer :question:



Cranking IPA: THIS (https://craftypint.com/beer/3413/bentspoke-brewing-co-crankshaft-ipa) description sums it up perfectly :thumbsup: the "where did that beer disappear to" description is right on the money...terrible really :scared: it just slides down faaar too easily! :lol:

[multiweb]

Yep, agree with bigger counterweights closer to the RA but I thought the FSQ would be like a pimple on top of the AG12/camera combo. Although if you run out of shaft or roof space then side by side makes sense. Just fiddly to get right in all sky areas IMO that's all. In an obs when you have the time to fine tune things then ok.

[Atmos]

How about building an array of FSQ106's as a counter balance system? ASA got it down pat ;) Strongman can follow in their footsteps.

[strongmanmike]

Actually the FSQ106-Robofocus-MMOAG-Lodestar-CFW57-FLIP16803 is a pretty massive addition to the AG12-SXVH694-SXCFW-Lodestar-SXOAG :)

I'm quite confident I will be able to balance everything, just want to see it all move around the sky ok, that's all, bit of inertial mass in all that :)

Mike

-

[Slawomir]

If things will get too heavy for one mount, the latest Losmandy mount could be a nice match for the FSQ.

[strongmanmike]

Agreed and already considered exactly that...in the end it was dollars not to mention the need then to have another setup outside the dome, inconvenience, dew, setting up, packing up etc or building another observatory. So if it all bolts together and operates as currently planned it will be an excellent rig...IF!

I know the photo of it all mounted up is gunna look pretty impressive! even if it can't move! :lol: :D

Mike

[Slawomir]

Since when shifting a few kg became an issue for the strong Mike? :lol:

Fair enough with the $$$.

[strongmanmike]

Ha, sheesh I'm over that, but hey yes, I could do it physically but maaaan I did that for years, I don't want to go back to that if I can avoid it...:rolleyes:

Mike

[LewisM]

Old Man Sidonio...:rofl:

[strongmanmike]

Yup...but I can still lift peoples spirits :D

That guy in your attached picture is Markus Ruhl and he is not much smaller than that exaggerated doctored image actually...here is an undoctored picture (http://www.ifbb.de/ruehl.html)of him.

Anyway...still don't want to be setting up and packing up an imaging rig again :sadeyes:

Mike

[gregbradley]

I think it will push your NJP to the limit but it will cope so long as everything is nicely balanced.

Beautiful looking scope. The FSQ just oozes a quality feel to it.

Greg.

[niharika]

Nice new setup Mike. Just wondering if the focuser/cca will be on par with FLI PL or not:question:

[strongmanmike]

I think you are right Greg but as they say, nothing ventured nothing gained, if it works well I will be in imaging heaven :)

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Only time will tell I guess...? Quite a few people seem to use the same setup with great success, so here's hoping :)

Mike

[gregbradley]

I had no problem with my FSQ EDX3 and Proline although I have read that many have had issues over the years. I think each EDX version has been to correct that so EDX4 should be the best for this.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Let's hope so Greg :thumbsup:

Mike

[Octane]

Welcome to imaging nirvana. :)

H

[strongmanmike]

Hope so H, at least the seeing wont be such a limiting factor and can't wait to see the whopping great field come down for the first time :eyepop: :thumbsup:

Mike

[multiweb]

You'd be surprised. It's been my experience that these refractors are so sharp they are quite difficult to keep in focus for an extended period of time. When you nail the focus you can clearly see variations in seeing over time. Even at 500mm FL. Can't use a reducer on my old Q so I don't know if that still would be an issue at ~300mm. I found mine to be impossible to focus manually with the standard focuser. I had to get a micro-focuser. I'd always overshoot somehow. Then I had to get some kind of temperature compensation and profile the scope over many nights to get a good ratio absolute position vs. temp. Works well but it's not perfect. Beginning of the night when temp drops rapidly it doesn't seem to be linear. Once you're past that around 22:00 when everything settles then it's ok.

[gregbradley]

Yes you need to refocus every 1C change in temp. Easy now with Sky X temp compensation. I use it on the Honders and it works well.

I think also for an FSQ/Proline combo it would be good to master drizzling to get rounder stars. PixInsight does that and other software is offering that now.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Marc and Greg, all things I have been expecting to assess and deal with as needed :thumbsup: I am with the scope all the time, so I am not expecting focus checking to be any more annoying than having to turn the dome every 30 - 40 min :tasdevil: :lol:

Mike

[gregbradley]

No problem then. I used a Robofocus on my FSQ. You have to ask for the custom bushes that fit the FSQ focuser spindle. It can accept a temp compensation sensor.

At my dark site temps tend to fall for the first few hours then stabilise and then drop very slowly and bottom just before sunrise.

You can focus using the microfocuser but I found with mine at least if you try to lock the focuser it shifted the focus so I would half lock it which didn't shift the focus. This was before I got a Robofocus.

Greg.

[Octane]

I automate my focus runs with FocusMax called by CCDCommander and issue a refocus every 30 minutes (usually at the end of every 30-minute narrowband exposure).

H

[strongmanmike]

Well all the rest of the bits I need arrived today....so now just to put it all together...and in the correct order...so it works :P

Not long now...

Mike

[Atmos]

Pictures or it didn't happen!

[strongmanmike]

Ha ha, all in boxes, when I have it all together on the dinning table...scared ****less that it will all be too big and heavy for tandem mounting...I'll post a pickie :)

Mike

[Visionary]

Mike,

I guess when you have single-handedly discovered a Galaxy you are granted some licence when it comes to equipment, enjoy!

David

[cometcatcher]

I expect to see IFN from you with this. :P

[strongmanmike]

Weeeeelll not quiiiite single handedly :whistle:...more of a team effort really :) but thanks :D...I'm reeeeeally looking forward...to shaking it all down and drinking in the unfamiliar wiiiide vistas :eyepop: :thumbsup:



Ha ha, I have so many fields planned in my mind already and yes a timely revisit to Sarah's Nebula (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/sarahs_nebula) is near the top :(

[gregbradley]

Looking forward to first light. I wouldn't sing too loud whilst its imaging as you may get vibrations in the optics:rofl:

[strongmanmike]

Oh well, first stumbling block, OPT sent me the Robofocus bracket that fits the original FSQ where I need the one for the FSQ ED models, doh!!..so cant fit the Robofocus

Oh well....more beer :drink:

[Slawomir]

Sorry about that Mike. Hopefully you will get things sorted quickly :thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

I could mount it all without the Robofocus....and just focus manually until the new bracket arrives..?

I'll think about it over another beer....

[lazjen]

How many times would you need to refocus per session? If you keep having a beer between each time, the actual focus may not matter after awhile. :)

[strongmanmike]

:lol: I like yer thinkin ;)

[Slawomir]

I reckon you need to refocus between each sub. And since 530mm at f/5 will be super fast with KAF16803, subs will be quite short, meaning...

[strongmanmike]

...lots of beer :question:

[Atmos]

Just order another Atlas and forego the Robo altogether :P

[strongmanmike]

Yes did consider that but given I already had a RB on the Starfire, which worked perfectly with a similarly heavy image train (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/126209443/original), I figured that I would just use that :)

[gregbradley]

Short? No way. This is no CMOS super low read noise fancy shamncy but ole fashioned large pixel rev head large full wells super charged.

John Gleason does 40 minute subs for his FSQ and Ha images.

105,000 electron full wells means you can go very long exposures without filling them. The 16803 has great dynamic range and rarely overexposes an area.

You'd have to really thrash it to do that. Full well capacity is often not considered that important but in my experience its very important.

Greg.

[Slawomir]

I was just joking about short exposures. However, at f/5 and 530mm, 9 micron pixels will saturate fairly quickly on brighter stars, even with 100k wells.

Am I wrong thinking that 9 micron pixels and 100k wells saturate on bright stars at a similar rate as 3.69 micron pixels with 18k wells on the same telescope, due to having 6 times larger area to capture photons? Perhaps smaller pixels can saturate more quickly because of higher QE?

Just to be clear, I am not talking about pulling up faint bits nor SNR, just saturating bright stars.

[strongmanmike]

Well after being sent the wrong RoboFocus bracket and waiting for a new one, to only then discover I had also been sent the wrong adapters for the MonsterMOAG and then changing to a MegaMOAG (and all the back and forth emailing and freight time that involved) as well as just finding the time to put it all together...here it is finally, ready, I hope, to attach to the NJP beside the AG12 this weekend :thumbsup:

FSQ106EDX4 image train (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/166421195/original)

Who knows what other hic ups will occur out at the observatory now :rolleyes:...what have I missed :question:

Of course as part of the final put together I thought, hey, I better check the Aurora flat panel works....DOH, it's dead, nothing! that's three items in the orders for this rig that have been either wrong or faulty :rolleyes: just sent an email to Astronomik :sadeyes:.... :tasdevil:

Holding the scope as if pointed at the zenith, the Robo Focus seems to lift the heavy gear end ok, fingers crossed this doesn't change :prey:..?

Then...to eliminate the need for me to be a mule all night rotating the dome :scared: I am contemplating upgrading the observatory with a brand new Sirius motorised complete observatory, or, possibly a motorised dome only fitted on top of a bigger site shed :question:....this will never end.... :sadeyes::eyepop:

Mike

[multiweb]

Looks butt heavy. I reckon just bolt the FLI and hang the FSQ off it like a lens. Just sayin' :P

[Atmos]

From focuser right appears to be the same length as from focuser left ;)

[multiweb]

My thought. Get rid of the tube rings, save some weight. :lol:

[strongmanmike]

Yes, the complete setup in the picture, to be attached to the NJP alongside the AG12, weights 12.5kg

...we shall see :)

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Wadda ya mean col..?

[multiweb]

Yeah the FSQs are pretty heavy. Lots of glass.

[Slawomir]

I think your new wide field rig looks AWESOME :thumbsup:

Looking forward to the first light.

[strongmanmike]

So do I Suavi!....I can see some teathing ahead :scared2: and this has probably subtly kept away the desperation to get such equipment going immedeately...and the errors in orders aside, with such a currently reliable set up, I have been happy to take my time with it....

Mike

[Slawomir]

Mike, you know that you want a second mount for this beauty...in fact, deep inside, you know you already have made a decision which one you will get...it is just a matter of time for it to materialise in front of your door...resistance is futile...

[strongmanmike]

Ha! yeah that option did cross my mind for sure but apart from the extra cost, the thought of operating two different mounts in two different observatories, or having to setup a separate outdoor mount for the FSQ each night, seemed a bit daunting, so the possibility of having it all on one mount inside the one existing observatory seems more appealing.

Mike

[Slawomir]

Was just teasing, as always :D

Looking forward to the first light.

[strongmanmike]

Teasing?...Teasing?...you know I don't like teasing Suavi :mad2: this is a serious hobby! no time for skylarking fella, some of us have new observatories to..:question:...mortgage against :help:

:rofl:

[xelasnave]

I wonder if one set up ones observatory as a remote and available for a fee and presented as a business would one be able to claim expenditures on equipment as a tax loss?
alex

[strongmanmike]

I spent the weekend mounting everything and getting it all to fire up and everything talking etc...all seems to work

So I now have two completely separate imaging, guiding and focus systems that I can swap between in a minute, one wide field one narrow field :D

Although it took a bit of counterweight :eyepop: (that's 47kg on the dec shaft end!) some improvisation (big washers, aerobic ankle weights and pieces of gal steel channel), plenty of gaffa tape aaaand lots of hair raising moments holding a heavily imbalanced rig while changing counterweights etc, by my self! :eyepop:...balance is perfect all over the sky, movement is smooth and high speed slews seem no effort and no slippage detectable.

Waiting for next clear night to confirm I have the MegaMOAG setup right and to inspect the field tilt etc...

Happy days :)

Gunna have to be very careful moving around it all in the dark though, the whole rig is much wider now with sticky outy bits everywhere! will be a bit more ducking and weaving going on inside the dome :scared:

[Atmos]

Looks great Mike! I see two well worn EQ6 weights and a reasonable about of duct tape!

Looking forward to seeing what you can capture with this dual rig.

[strongmanmike]

I think what you are seeing are two well worn 6.5kg threaded Tak NJP conter weights and a lot of gym weight plates...but yes, nearly a whole role of tape :)

[Atmos]

Oh so they’re the threaded weights, nice :)

[Slawomir]

I think I can see counterweight shaft flexing :eyepop:

Looks great Mike and we all look forward to the first light :thumbsup:

[RickS]

Looks impressive, Mike. I expect the images to be even more so :thumbsup:

[DJT]

Awesome 😎 gotta love gaffa tape.
All set, ready to go and orion just around the corner. Enjoy.

[strongmanmike]

Cheers guys :thumbsup: just hope I have got the MegaMOAG adapters/spacing's right and there is no focuser slop, pulling things apart at night is a pain in the R's...and any other little thing I have forgotten :help:

Mike :)

[strongmanmike]

BTW, I know this topic is of interest to some - I had to add another $9500 to my specified portable items insurance too, this added another $8/month, so all up it is costing me $80/month to insure all my gear ie AG12, ProLine16803, SXVRH694, Atlas focuser, NJP mount and TakFSQ106 plus all associated adapters, accessories, filters, cables etc....I think that is reasonable (about the same as comprehensive insurance on a family car) :)

Mike

[multiweb]

:eyepop: That looks like a technological whirlpool of high end components and electrical tape! :P 47kg? Forget the insurance. They'll never carry all that gear out and if they do they'vre earned it. :lol: Looking forward to first light. :thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Well, pickle me grandmother!!!:eyepop: this scope is simply astonishing!! Pin point stars corner to corner, massive field......Im gobsmaked :jawdrop:...everything has worked perfectly..so far!! Slewing, guiding, camera, dithering everything....unbelievable....shame I got work tomorrow!

Im excited! :2thumbs:

[gregbradley]

Looks great. Very nice. I had the same setup on my last FSQ. Except I was using the smaller filter wheel. As I recall the rings had to be all the way back for balance and the scope focuses most of the way in which is good for less flex.

I also used Robofocus and it handled the weight. Like most focusers though if you went out past focus coming back the other way never seems to be the same distance to get it sharp again. So now I tend to watch for the spike in the focus graph and I have a good feel for what a tightly focused image looks like using the Proline.

The Robofocus can be setup for temperature compensation. I refocus after the first 45 minutes or so with the Honders and then I set the temp compensation to 350 clicks per 1 degree C temperature change in the SkyX and adjusting every .1C difference and it seems to match the focus shift fairly well. FSQ is probably similar.
Robofocus needs the sensor accessory though. The Atlas has one built in.

Greg.

[Slawomir]

Great news Mike :thumbsup:

[gregbradley]

Nice work Mike. I like the way the blue counterweights match the colour of the tightening knobs of your Newt! Nice touch Mr Gadgetman.

Greg.

[xelasnave]

Very impressive.
Mike if you got your hand on some lead shot you could cast a single weight in fibre glass resin holding the lead shot. You could use two weights to form either end of the molded unit and therefore take advantage of their fasteners possibly.

Your dedication is inspiring.

alex

[strongmanmike]

So I have now spent two nights using this new dual mounted setup and after being, shall we say, quietly concerned, that I had hoped for just a bit too much from my venerable 1994 Tak NJP mount..?..well, check out the attached guide graph :eyepop: So even with around 100kg loaded on the mount, it has slewed to targets happily and this is what the auto guiding has looked like both nights, all night ie. essentially perfect with average guide errors of +/- 0.3 arc sec, or less! :)...very happy :drink:

Mike

[Wavytone]

Well, I don't see why not, as long as its balanced it's only a matter of inertia when slewing.

When tracking the periodic errors are a function of the accuracy of the gear train, not the load on it. Might even track better heavily loaded as the rotational inertia would dampen any high-frequencies introduced by the corrections in the drive.

[strongmanmike]

Yes, they were my thoughts exactly but hey, theory is one thing, it was still worrying until proven :) that's a hell of a load

Mike

[Wavytone]

Coming from a formal control-systems engineering background, the theory does work. When it doesn't it's usually because you have made an assumption which turns out to be invalid.

[Slawomir]

Fantastic guiding Mike. What’s the theoretical loading capacity of your mount? I suspect you are quite past that point...I should then also add another scope onto my mount :lol: Have you considered sending both photos to Tak?

[Atmos]

All Mike needs to do is find another telescope/camera setup that has a weight offset for the counter weights and have a third setup :lol:

[strongmanmike]

Funny you should mention it Suavi and Col....I would love a camera lens system too :question: I do have a spare SXVH9 CCD camera lying around gathering dust, which although it has a small chip, attached to a 50mm lens would provide an approx 10deg X 8deg FOV... could be interesting..? :)

As for the theoretical load limit for the NJP mount..?...clearly it could be infinite :lol:

Mike

[gregbradley]

Wow, that is remarkable. Your NJP is a one off.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Dunno bout that? but I did hear that the NJP mount of this pre Temma era was the favourite mount of the father of Takahashi (can't remember his name?) and the guy that made the gears was a master craftsman, in the ER Byers league but he has since passed away...

Mike