Help please - what to buy as a family telescope?

[Chantal]

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking at buying a telescope as a family Christmas present. I have 3 children aged 10, 7 & 5 and myself and my husband who would all be using the telescope (hopefully)! We've never owned a telescope before but the kids have always shown an interest. After a recent trip away where my husband and I were lucky enough to view the moon through a telescope we thought it would be great to get one for the family to enjoy. We live in Erina, Central Coast NSW Australia.

I've been doing ALOT of research and quite frankly think I've complicated the whole process now lol. After speaking to a couple of telescope shops, I think I've narrowed the choice down to either the Sky-Watcher Heritage 130 Dobsonian $239 (lowest sale price I have found) or the 102mm Meade Infinity Refractor - $409

Dobsonian Telescope - SkyWatcher Heritage P130 Telescope | OZScopes
Meade Infinity 102mm Altazimuth Refractor Telescope 209006 | OZScopes

I was just wondering what you thought of these two telescopes and any advice you could give me?

Some other things to note:

1. We need the telescope to be stable (3 children all wanting to have a look, say no more....)
2. We will be using the telescope mainly from our backyard (at least to start off with)
3. We do go camping so would like it to be portable so we could take with us
4. Quick and easy to set up and use - there won't be a lot of patience waiting to get a look at the night sky lol
5. I'm not sure what we would like to look at yet besides the obvious planets and the moon, its a new exciting adventure. I know people talk about "deep space" but have to admit that it's hard to know whether we need to have a telescope that is going to show us that when I don't really know what there is to look at. I have seen some pictures and it does look amazing!!

I must admit, I am also a little bit nervous and scared about collimation and that did steer me away from the dob a bit and the fact that I had read it needs 15 to 20 mins to cool down before using?

I think that's it - just reading through it seems like I'm asking for everything lol. Oh well, any advice GREATLY appreciated!

Thank you,
Chantal

[Hemi]

Hi Chantal,

There are many posts on here about which scope, so I won't go into that. You've also demonstrated that your pretty good at researching.

I think of all your requirements, the rate determining step is portability for camping, and being new.

I have a 9.25 sct and a 102 apo refractor, neither are that great for kids, camping, and newbieness.

I would consider the Meade Etx 80. I'm About to buy one for my little ones (6 and 10) for exactly your reasons. The Etx 90 is a bit bigger, but better for planets, I think that could be important for kids, as they will be wowed more by Saturn and Jupiter than DSOs. I personally reckon the 90 is on the borderline for true camping.

Good luck, and welcome to IIS

Hemi

[pfitzgerald]

Hi Chantal - and welcome to the forum.

As Hemi has indicated there are quite a few threads already here covering a 'first' scope purchase.

One possibility that you may not have thought of yet is that of purchasing a decent Dobsonian (say 8") for home and a good pair of binoculars for when you go camping. HTH

Paul

[Allan_L]

Hi Chantal,
Welcome to IceInSpace :welcome:

Good on you for wanting to buy a telescope for your family.
And good on you for doing some good research beforehand.

Firstly, are you aware that the Heritage is described as a tabletop scope?
Obviously a small stable table is required to comfortably view the skies.
Personally, I have never found a setup that I considered acceptable when trying to use a tabletop scope.

Having said that, I have heard good reports about the Heritage 130.
Portable, and good quality. And that does seem like a good price.

The other scope does look reasonable, but you will see more with the DOB so I might be tempted to go that way. Generally, the bigger the aperture, the more detail you can see.

As you are so close, I would be happy to discuss your options further if you like, and you and hubby are welcome to come over for a cuppa and have a look through my scopes if you like to drop me a PM.

[doppler]

Bintel have a great sale on at the moment, you should check out their web site. Here's a good deal on a 102MM refractor. https://www.bintel.com.au/product/celestron-nexstar-102slt-refractor/

The good thing about refractors is that you can use them for terrestrial viewing as well.

[Robh]

Hi Chantal,

You will be paying good money for portability but limited capability.

Assuming the eyepieces stated on-line, you will not get enough magnification out of the SkyWatcher heritage for planets (telescope 650mm / 10mm eyepiece = 65x). You really need double that (130x). The refractor is barely passable at 600mm / 6.3mm = 95x.

You can get a 6inch Dob under $400. It's not as portable but is a whole lot more flexible and will give you a lot of DSOs to look at.

A Dob will cool down faster than any other scope of the same size as it is an open design. Refractors, Maks and Schmidts hold the hot air inside and can take a while to cool down.

A full tube Dob (as against a truss-type) should hold its collimation pretty well. Collimation for Dobs can be done in minutes with a laser collimator but this will cost extra.

Regards, Rob

[Wavytone]

The kids are too little for a dob. The other thing that will happen is fairly soon one will take it apart and have sticky fingers all over the mirrors - and that's if they don't chip or break them. IMHO a cheap refractor is more likely to survive this curiosity at least to the extent it still works afterwards.

Bintel have quite a few smallscopes on display in the shop that perfect for kids and aren't advertised in the online website.

Buy an entry refractor - 60-80 mm aperture and a budget eyepiece or two - that will be enough to keep them happy until they're old enough to really appreciate a good scope in a few years time - if they are still interested. Looking at the moon, Jupiter and if it shows Saturn rings should be enough for now.

In any case there's a fair chance they'll lose interest as teens tend to have other priorities - don't waste money on a scope they won't be used for long.

[silv]

+1 for kids being wowed by planets more than black&white! DSO (no colour vision during the night).

in case you haven't come across this during your research, here's a calculator to give you an impression of how an object like a planet would look like in the scope with eyepiece you are considering.
https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/

aperture is important. but for planets, it's about (long) focal length of the tube and magnification via eyepiece.

I would not buy "any entry refractor" like wavytone suggests. The wobbling mount these come usually with would destroy all fun immediately.

Speaking of the mount, Goto capacity would be great, too.
Alt-Az Goto mounts are easy as pie to set up for an adult newbie.

and it'll keep the planet in the field of view even if the kids take 20 minutes to fight about who's next at the eyepiece.


a mount like this with wouldn't be a bad choice.
if you were to chose this complete setup: plus an additional barlow so you'd get to the magnification needed for planets when using the 10mm eyepiece:
http://http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Telescope-1026-GOTO-Saxon-Reflector-/361287509441?hash=item541e69e5c1:g: WuwAAOxy4fBTlCqd (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Telescope-1026-GOTO-Saxon-Reflector-/361287509441?hash=item541e69e5c1:g: WuwAAOxy4fBTlCqd)

[Satchmo]

I think primarily when you are going for your first glimpses of the sky nothing will kill it faster than an unstable mount.

Friends living close by had wanted a telescope for their kids to see some `stuff' and they'd allready had a 4" Tasco and been able to find nothing.

I picked them up a GSO 8" Dob here on IIS for $200 and I can report that a few years down the track it is still all in good working order and 4 kids under 10 years of age haven't been able to destroy it so I am not as pessimistic as Wavytone .

A 6" Dob will be easy to use and far more stable than anything you can buy in any category under $500. Cheap small refractor will have no image scale and shaky image will put a newbie off pretty quickly unless they've got a lot of patience . ( MY first telescope was a 66mm 30x spyglass hanging from the Hills Hoist with the eyepiece end resting on cardboard boxes , but then I had time on my hands !)

[raymo]

Bintel have a sale on Go To 102mm refractor for $599, great price.
raymo

[Chantal]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all your advice, it's given me a lot to think about. I know a 6" dobs is the favorite pick (obviously for a good reason!) but I am worried about portability with 3 kids and everything else when we go away. If it was just for home, then that's a different story. I'm probably leaning more then to the 130 Heritage with a barlow lens as an alternative that is portable and allow a good view of the skies. Then if the kids (or hubby and I) continue to use it and show a keen interest, upgrade to something bigger and better.

Raymo - funny you mention that telescope as it was the one they recommended for when I spoke to them today. Would love it and seems great, just don't know about spending $600 as a first scope to test the waters.

Maybe a mistake but time will tell........

Thanks again everyone :thanx:

[silv]

:)

one last thought:
if you buy a less than usuble scope for low $$$ you won't be able to recover the investment when selling it on.
and you are going to sell it on because you won't have any fun with it.

on the other hand: if you pay $$$$$ now you are more likely to
a) keep the scope
b) sell it on with less loss

[silv]

what's the cost for a normal family 2 hour entertainment?

if you buy a good scope that actually does entertain you as a group:
each time you are out in the backyard or camping, you spend or rather save the amount for a 2 hour family night out.
If after 1 year you sell it on, you will have had ~6-8 or maybe even more family events with it.
That gain will cover the losses during the sale if you get a good mount and scope in the first place.

-----

I can understand the reasoning against a dob in a car full of people and camping gear.
There are collapsable dobs, too.

Re-visit the idea of an alt-az Goto mount? It can be taken apart and so fill the little specks of free space in the car.

[mental4astro]

Chantal,

:welcome: to IIS.

I second Wavytone's suggestion of a 60mm to 80mm refractor over a dob.

By the ages of your kids, they will struggle with a dob, including a table-top set up. Dobs are great, don't get me wrong - heck, I build them too.

I too have kids, and have had dozens upon dozens of experiences with other kids too, big and small, with my scopes. At their age, the effort of moving such an instrument can be too much for them, and the mental gymnastics can prove overwhelming to move a dob. Get a smaller refractor to start will make for an easier instrument for them to handle. And these small instruments are still very capable.

You will see amazing detail on the Moon (not just thousands of craters, but also lava flows, valleys and amazing shadow play), the rings of Saturn and the moons of Jupiter, and many, many dozens of deep sky objects. You won't see the arms of spiral galaxies, be it with a small refractor or a larger dob - you need to get into the realm of 12" dobs and bigger for that! And even then it also won't look anything like the photos we see.

If your youngest was 10, then I would suggest a dob. But your kids are really too little for a dob. Even a table top one. I made a few for my kids too, including a table top one, and it took my now 10 year old son quite some time to come to grips with how to move it and find what he wanted in the scope. It is surprisingly an awkward exercise. My little 2" refractor on the other hand, they mastered it straight away. They've been around scopes all their lives too, and have had more than just a couple of times to handle scopes with me. It is a tricky skill to learn for a little one.

Forget goto scopes for now. Not necessary and way too complex for your needs right now. A smart phone app, like Sky Safari, is a great tool to help find stuff in the sky. The basic Sky Safari app is free too I believe.

Alex.

[Wavytone]

It's also important for the littlies that it LOOKS like a telescope ! That means a small refractor, not a dob.

[AEAJR]

What a great Christmas present.

You have received a lot of advice but I need to know more about you as you will be the main factor in the success or failure of the scope. And, since I am in the USA, I don't know your local conditions or your local suppliers.

ABOUT YOU

How much do you and your husband know about astronomy? Do you plan to learn or is this just something for a casual look at the moon, Saturn, Jupiter and a couple of stars? Nothing wrong with that but I need to know how much time and effort you plan to put into this.

ABOUT YOUR LOCATION

How dark are your skies. Are you in a city or is the night sky overflowing with stars? This will matter if you are going to be able to find more than just the few brightest targets like the moon and planets.

ABOUT YOUR GOALS

Do you plan to let the kids use the scope on their own or only under your supervision? This goes to size, weight and complexity.

I like Dobs but a typical 6" dob takes up a lot of room in the car on family vacations. If you have the room, great, but many would not. So something physically smaller is a better choice.

Based on the little I know of you I would recommend the 102 mm refractor package you mentioned. I like Meade Infinity. Sky and telescope gave it a very good review. And I have read good repots from others. No collimation and it should travel well. A great first scope, easy to use and light enough that a 10 year old could use it on their own.

MANUAL VS. COMPUTERIZED TELESCOPES

If you plan to get deeper into this, how will you find your targets? Either you get a computerized scope, sometimes called a Goto, or you learn to star hop.

If you have dark skies then star hopping is not hard to do. If you live in a bright city with very few stars in the sky then I would recommend a computerized scope.

I live in a bright suburb of NY City, on Long Island. I don't have a lot of stars in my skies so I have two computerized scopes and I love them. But I have friends who star hop so even in my light polluted skies it can be done.

My first scope was the Meade ETX 80, a fully computerized Goto scope that is small, light and easy to use. Gives wonderful wide views. I use it for planets, star clusters, and other targets.

I do a 5 minute alignment before I use it each time. Then it can find virtually anything in my sky. I just put in the proper designation or pick from a menu and the telescope will go to the target on its own. I may have to look around a little as it might miss by a tiny bit but it is a LOT better than not knowing where to look or how to find anything. But it raises the cost per mm of aperture. So it is a budgetary consideration. Today's kids are very computer savy so teaching a 10 year old to do this should be a piece of cake.



STAR HOPPING - If you don't have a Goto scope this is how you will find your targets.


Star hopping guide
http://www.nightskyinfo.com/star-hopping/

Star hopping 101 – Video play list
https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=36B0AD5D29A76981



BINOCULARS

Lastly, do you have binoculars. Binoculars are a wonderful way to get started in astronomy and many people own them already.

I am attaching my Quick Start Guide for getting started with binoculars. Note that it is rich with links to all kinds of information. It was written for the Northern Hemisphere so I don't know how applicable it will be for you but it will give you an idea of how you can use binoculars to get started. You can also do this with a telescope. 7X35, 8X40, 10X50 are all great for getting started. That is how I started. My first pair of 10X50s cost $25 and that is what got me into astronomy. I now have 4 sets and two telescopes and the binoculars get LOTS of sky time.

Introduction to Binoculars for Star Gazing ( I use this one all the time to show the value of starting with binoculars)
Seeing targets in Taurus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fHKG9tkPQU


I hope this has been helpful.

[AEAJR]

How would you know what to look at?

www.tonightssky.com
Allows you to prepare a target list for your location

skeye for android phones and tablets
point the phone at the sky and it will show you what is up there

http://stellarium.org/
load this on your home computer and it will show you the sky. I use this every day.


They are all FREE and there are tons more resources available to help you.

[AEAJR]

Chantal,

We have not heard back from you so I presume you purchased a telescope? What did you buy?