Synscan Firmware 4.38.09 - Daytime Alignment

[mikeyjames]

Hi all,
Picked up my scope yesterday from Andrews and trying to learn how to use it Skywatcher 200/1000 Newt + NEQ6pro.

Yesterday was mixed.

1) Nearly took my little finger off while adjusting the Altitude Adjustment T-bolts. I had both bolts in and had my left hand rested on the front one while winding in the back one. I was just about up to Sydney's latitude by winding the back one and the whole thing then fell forward on my little finger, which was on top of the front bolt. The force was so much it bent the bolt. It hurt! :eyepop: Also left a nice chunk of my finger behind.

2) I got to see Saturn - that was fun.:)

Now for my question. I have updated my Synscan controller to V4.38.09, which says it now has daytime alignment using sun. For the life of me I cannot get this option to show up. I just see stars when I choose one star alignment. I don't see any other options.

Any help much appreciate.

Thanks
Mick

[madwayne]

Hi Mick

Whatever you do, DO NOT point an unfiltered telescope at the Sun. You will destroy it and any eye that is looking through it at the time. My apologies if you already knew this but just making sure.

Daytime alignment using the Sun, sounds interesting. Can't help you with that though.

Clear skies!

Wayne

[mikeyjames]

Thanks Wayne. Yep, I have pre-made Baader solar filter ND5.0 covering the entire aperture of the scope. I understand the need to warn.

[iborg]

Don't forget to cover the finder scope! Again, you probably have thought of this.

[Blue-Echo]

Hi Mick,

I was searching in vain some months ago for the latest synscan update, but without luck :confused2: Where did you download it from?
Cheers, Nick

[Malcolm]

mikeyjames: Once you have completed the location, date and time, then Y or N to daylight saving, you are faced with 1-Y or 2-N to align, select Y and then using the scroll through buttons choose daytime align, the handset will then search for objects. Sun or the Moon if it is up. I did a daytime align on the Moon this morning. A number 14 welders glass taped over the finder can assist with locating the Sun. Also check the shadow on the ground, the smallest shadow cast will put you close to the Sun.
A white light offset solar filter can be made using Baader Solar Film, find on eBay, and use sturdy cardboard to make the filter housing. I used mdf. The offset hole is placed in-between the spiders that hold the secondary mirror. Larger than this is not required. Clear Skies! :-)

[sil]

Choosing the sun as an option is usually a seperate option you HAVE to enable before the sun shows in the list. Its often buried in the options deep somewhere to discourage people casually enabling it. If you can find a menu tree for your handset you might be able to find the relevant option.

This is because of the obvious dangers with pointing magnifying optics at the sun. Along with the repeated warnings from others (always good to point out) make sure you keep your guidescope covered too. A length of empty pipe laid parallel to your scope's axis is all you need for good alignment of the sun when using a solar filter. You move the scope until the pipe makes a small ring shadow on the ground (indicating the sun can be seen clear through it). There are other alignment options too, the scope tube alone making a minimal shadow is enough for some.

Good polar alignment is still needed for sun alignment and tracking to be effective too.

[mikeyjames]

Hi Nick,
I got it from

http://www.skywatcher.com/download/software/

I think it was only recently released.

[mikeyjames]

Thank you.

[mikeyjames]

Thanks. I'll have a look for it buried somewhere in the menus.

[Blue-Echo]

Thanks Mick. That would explain it then. I'll give it a go.

[mikeyjames]

Hi Malcolm
I checked again today and the option just isn't there. Also, Skywatcher support emailed me today with the exact advice you gave me. I also followed Sil's advice and went through every menu item and nothing.

I've emailed Skywatcher support again telling them the option is missing so I'll see what they have to say.

Cheers
Mick

[Malcolm]

That is really odd. The SkyWatcher site lists the daytime option as a new addition to its latest firmware, and if you have that, it should be there under the alignment menu. When you first turn on the handset, the v number is displayed. Check your v number.

Another option you could try, would be to align the scope at night, using your normal method, then cover and leave the scope aligned overnight with the power on, the next day, look at 7, (Planets) and select Sun. That could work.
It seems to me that if the menu option cannot be found, the version is not correct, or the update flash has not worked. I have a v3 handset by the way, however afaik the functions are the same, a friend in my small group has an NEQ6 Pro with a v4 handset and I have used his handset to show him the PAE function and it appears to be identical.

See if you can find one star alignment. The software write up on the SkyWatcher site says it's available and I just powered up my handset and it's not there. Although I'm sure I've seen it once before.

[mikeyjames]

Hi Malcolm,
Yes, it's a strange one.

When I turn the system, I see “version 04.38.09”. I press enter and get the warning about pointing the telescope at the sun. I then fill in coordinates, time zone, elevation, date, time, and then daylight saving status. I then press 1 to “begin alignment”. My options in the scroll list are:

1-star align
2-star align
3-star align
Cone error
NP error

There is no option to do daytime alignment.

There are definite changes since the earlier firmware as I can now choose the sun as a target under 'solar system' menu, just can't get it at the alignment menu.

I am really new and was hoping to use the daytime alignment to set up just before the sun goes down. I am still learning the sky and hoped this would help a bit.

I am setting up to the best of my ability using a compass to point the mount south and a digital level to point to the celestial pole. Then my biggest issue with aligning at night is how there are many more stars in the field of view once you look through the scope. I use star map to try and find my alignment target, I think I have it, I then try to zero in on it and find many more stars visible surrounding the chosen star that could also be the target - I hope than made sense :question: On that note, I wonder why they don't add things like Venus as an alignment target?

I am also getting used to how the EQ mount moves with the arrow keys and with things being back to front in the field of view. Last night Venus was easily the brightest thing in the western sky but it took me a good 30 minutes to get the scope pointed at it. From there Saturn took another few minutes. I suppose it's 49 years of learning about what up, down, left, and right mean, and now throwing that out the window.

I can't even try polar alignment from my home as the southern view is blocked to about 45 degrees, northern to about 25 degrees, but not too bad for west and east.

Cheers
Mick

[JoelyE95]

This is probably going to be useful to you. I have an AZ-EQ6 and the "Daytime Align" function is only available in AZ Mode, not EQ Mode. When using this as an alignment option, I managed to get about 90 minutes of tracking before needing to re-center (With an ED80T and 12mm Ortho EP)

Joel

[mikeyjames]

Hi Joel,
So the plot thickens. Maybe it's only available for AZ capable mounts. This seems like a strange decision to me but I don't know enough to make that judgement I suppose.

Is there a good reason why you would only enable this function on AZ mode and not EQ mode?:question:

Thanks
Mick

[Malcolm]

That is an interesting fact, I have an alt-az dobsonian. I would ask about that by email if you can.
If you do a three star alignment and choose the south-western zone, you should get Venus, then alignment on another two stars, maybe that will help with your alignment. Usually the handset will choose the brightest objects, and I think there is a filter menu item that you can use, possibly by magnitude.

[mikeyjames]

I'm waiting for Skywatcher to get back to me. They were pretty quick to get back initially when telling me it should work (i.e., it's my problem for not knowing how to use it). Since replied with the fact it doesn't work, silence for three days.

[mikeyjames]

Hi all,
Skywatcher have gotten back to me and are adamant it should work on the NEQ6. They are talking about replacing my hand controller. Yet an internet search finds that I'm not the only NEQ6 owner where it doesn't work, with many claiming it only works on the AZ-EQ6, and then only in AZ mode.

They asked me to re-flash the firmware of the hand controller and the motor controller on the mount - this made no difference.

I'll update the thread when I hear more news.

Cheers
Mick

[wardlaw@freenet]

Just to confirm, have updated my V3 handset to 3.38.09 today for my EQ3 and daylight align is not available.

Ian

[mikeyjames]

I Ian,
Have you contacted Skywatcher support? I think the more people that contact them the more chance they'll get it fixed.

Cheers
Mick

[mikeyjames]

Well, I was wrong. Ever since I re-flashed the hand controller and updated the mount's motor controller there has been some really odd behaviour.

Sometimes I will select a target, the hand controller will give the coordinates correctly but then point at the ground. For example, yesterday afternoon I asked it to point at the sun, it gave coordinates of around 267 degrees (near west) and altitude of 40 degrees but it pointed at the ground.

I had Stellarium running last night with the mount. The few times it did it Stellarium showed that the mount was indeed pointing at the ground.

If I then park the scope and try again, it works fine.

Cheers
Mick

[JoelyE95]

Not sure if it is still relevant for you, but I had some time free this morning to do a video for you which shows how it works with my AZ-EQ6. Where it works in AZ mode and not in EQ mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHLZtRtECoA

Feel free to send it to SkyWatcher if you think it helps.

Joel

[mikeyjames]

Thanks for that. At first Skywatcher told me that I should see a menu for "Daytime Align" like you seem to have. Then they told me for the NEQ6 the sun can be selected under "1-Star Alignment". As we know, neither is true.

I actually sent them some pics to prove I have both motor controller and handset on latest firmware and I also them a video showing the selection of objects I get at midday under 1-star align.

I will send them you video as well. Appreciate it.

[Malcolm]

The plot thickens.

[mikeyjames]

Hi all,
I finally got this answer from Skywatcher support in Australia:

"I got the answer from SkyWatcher and unfortunately they confirmed that the daytime alignment is not available for equatorial mount. It is reasonable because the equatorial mounts have to be aligned to the south/north pole and that can be done only during the night. However, all the equatorial mount has the solar tracking rate."

Can someone with more knowledge than me report whether this actually makes sense.

Cheers
Mick

[JoelyE95]

Mick,

It makes sense to me the explanation that they gave you. Bit of a shame that it was not mentioned in the Change Log for the firmware that it only works for AZ Mode.

In relation to the tracking (I may be wrong, but it is my working understanding) the mount provides for different tracking rates. The three main ones are Sidereal, Solar and Lunar.

Sidereal - Deep Sky/Stars. Basically anything with an RA/Dec on the Celestial Grid (J2000). Can probably use for some distant planets if you wanted to, but the mount will automatically select Solar Tracking for planets. This rate is about 99.7% that of the Solar Rate or about 1 degree of difference per day.
Solar - Sun and Planetary Bodies.
Lunar - Moon. This is the fastest of these rates as the moon moves quicker in the apparent sky.


There would be nothing stopping you doing a pretty darn good setup in EQ mode to start with, doing no alignment and just using the GoTo. You would obviously need to re-center the target, but at least the tracking mode is selected/changed and should give you at least a decent amount of time before it wanders off. If you ask me, the only thing worth your while setting up for would be the Sun, but I would not expect you to get the 1.5hrs or so that I can get in AZ mode.

There are two other rates which would be beneficial depending on your interests, but the mounts are not programmed for this and computer software starts to come into play. These are for Comets and Satellites.

Just my food for thought. Hope that at least maybe explains your question?

Joel

[mikeyjames]

Thanks Joel, it definitely answers my question. I hadn't really thought about it since getting the telescope two weeks ago but it all makes perfect sense - the moon orbits us in approx. 28 days (12 deg diff per day), we orbit the sun in approx. 365 days (0.99 deg per day), and the sun orbits the galaxy in approx. 250 million years. I suppose about a degree every 695 thousand years doesn't really matter for the deep space stuff.

I think:question: