Tak FSQ106 comparison questions

[strongmanmike]

Ok I am seriously looking at getting a wide field scope by years end to use with my currently idle FLI ProLine 16803. I hope to be able to mount the whole image train on the NJP accessory plate so it will ride side by side with the AG12, as the ED80-SXVH9 were doing HERE (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/134719005/original)...due to my chip size (52mm diagonal) I am understandably considering a Tak FSQ106

My main question is that I am a bit confused about the differences between the various versions of the FSQ available ie. New Q, FSQ106ED, FSQ106EDXIII and FSQ106EDXIV...? Then there is the older FSQN version to consider second hand too..?

The image train I am envisaging is:

FSQ106 (Robofocus on focus knob) -> MMOAG with Lodestar -> CFW-5-7 -> ProLine16803.

My image train will be rather heavy, so which FSQ would be best suited to this do you think and why?

Thanks for any advice :)

Cheers

Mike

[RobF]

Mike you might want to quiz Jase about this. I bought his old Robofocus gear from his old FSQ rig and it had a higher spec Hurst stepper motor for hauling his large camera (think it was a big chip Apogee from memory). Believe he had probs with motor reliably moving big FW and camera rig. FSQ106ED has a nice R&P focuser which is plenty strong/reliable in itself. You've probably heard the "Captain's wheel" on the ED versions caused some people tilting/movement issues.

I've only got a QHY9 and QHY FW in my image train currently.

Would be happy to test your 16803 on it for say 6 months though to save you headaches later? :D :whistle:

[strongmanmike]

Ok cheers for that Rob :thumbsup: but no, I haven't heard too much about "problems" with the various FSQ's, hence my question but focuser tilt/bending is what I want to avoid, just doing my homework :thumbsup:

My Robo focus is currently attached to my Starfire (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/126209443/original) (Also standing idle in a cupboard :rolleyes:) and it had no issue at all lifting the described imaging train and the massive 4" focus tube and 4" FF (less the MMOAG-Lodestar) and focusing tightly was a breeze, even when pointing at the zenith, so I am confident it will handle the load

...would you like my Starfire as well...? :lol:

Mike

[gregbradley]

I have had a few FSQs. Venerable FSQ106N and the FSQ106EDX111.
The latest version of the FSQ106ED replaces the captains wheel part which was usually simply locked down and never used (to rotate the focuser for framing) or rarely used with a solid cast piece to prevent flexure.

FSQ106N has a rock solid focuser with a knob on top for locking down focus. I never saw tilt or flex on that with Apogee U16M. Not sure if I had the Proline then, I don't think so.

FSQ106ED has better colour correction. I have read numerous posts on the Tak uncensored forum from people complaining of flex in their FSQ106ED. Then again the 106N gives some nice colours and you are fond of blue aren't you!
One simply fix was to tighten the focuser adjusters under the focus mechanism. It put pressure on a Teflon block. I think later models changed that to some other system like a metal block or perhaps it was the Teflon that got added.

Anyway. I used exactly what you are saying, a Robofocus, MMOAG and Proline 16803 but I had CFW 4/5 (still have it) which is significantly lighter and smaller and less prone to flex. The CFW 5/7 as you know is large and heavily leveraged off its connections and I think is a force that could cause flexure. I have managed to minimise or eradicate (?? mostly) flex from it with my CDK17 and RHA. But I did seem to get more flex/tilt once I started using it. Mind you I like the 2 bolts that bolt the Proline to the CFW 5/7.
In the future though, if I do get another CFW it would be the centreline as the 5/7 is taking things a bit to the extreme.

My FSQ106ED had no flex and I got round stars to the corners every time.
The Robofocus worked well and you need to get the Tak FSQ bracket and bush that connects the Robofocus motor to the main focuser spindle (not the micro focuser spindle).

FSQs are very temp sensitive so a good addition would be the Lacerta/focuslock setup by Optec (its cheap) that enables continuous autofocus. That would be invaluable on the FSQ as every 1C change requires a refocus (probably true of most scopes but very noticeable on the FSQ).

As far as FSQ106N versus FSQ106ED111 or IV goes. The main differences are the colour correction is better on the FSQ106ED and there is no vignetting on the FSQ106ED. The 106N in my opinion gave richer colours due to its 2 x fluorite elements but it also was a bit soft in the blue channel and also gave weird dark bars in bright stars along the edges of the image. Have a look at some of Rob Gendlers FSQ106N images and you'll see the effect.

106ED internal tube black paint gives a green cast. I found this out because when the FSQ106ED first came out I could always tell an FSQ106ED image as the colour looked a bit mustardy and sterile. I mentioned this to one guy who then tested his FSQ106ED and found it was indeed slightly green biased. He traced it back to the internal paint (I thought it was the new mustard coloured coatings as the FSQ106N had a lovely grass green coating).

Anyway I replaced my FSQ106ED111 with a TEC110 fluorite F5.6. Immediately I noticed the TEC got better and richer colour but it was a bit of a struggle with the focuser as it was not designed for the heavy Proline. I got it to work but it wasn't ideal. I really should've removed the focuser altogether and installed a solid tube adapter and used a FLI PDF focuser.
Anyway I am saying that about the TEC so you get the colour aspect of the 106ED. Its not quite spot on and it would be one aspect I would be checking out about the FSQ130 if they have remedied that.

The focuser lock on the FSQ106ED is a waste, locking focus actually shifts focus. The 106N had a very good one. But you won't use that with a Robofocus anyway. I had a standard Robofocus and it worked fine. Although if you went past focus it wasn't a matter of going back in the same amount you went past it. So there was some backlash but same with the FLI Atlas.

FSQ106EDX1V would be my choice but 106N is probably cheaper but not by as much as you would think. On Astromart they seem to go for about US$3000 whereas a new FSQ106ED is now around US$5K I think.

A classic scope and a great combo.

The FSQ130 has still yet to arrive in anyone's hands that I have seen so to this date remains vapourware but I still think its about to arrive. They must want to make sure its perfect and they must've had some issues with it.

If I did get another scope in the future that would be one I would be interested in but at US$12500 its an exotic instrument and the 5 inch focuser would have very expensive adapters! I am also not sure how much better it would be over the 106ED as it only has a slightly longer focal length. The new AP130 with its Ubeaut widefield corrector would possibly be similar for much less and perhaps less temperamental.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Greg, some good feedback there mate :thumbsup:

I had a look at your equipment pages and (as I have noticed on may other peoples web sites too) all photos show you using a guide scope with the FSQ but you mention you also used the MMOAG too, which was the more reliable for tight guiding with the big ProLine-CFW and was there much difference?

I see you used the clam shell too, rather than two scope rings, did you find this adequate for holding the OTA firm with the MMOAG-CFW-ProLine attached?

That captains wheel, do you loosen, rotate the focuser and then tighten again..?

Mike

[Paul Haese]

I have the FSQ106ED with the captains wheel. I have not noticed any flexure yet but don't have the sort of payload attached either. The wheel on mine has been locked down since I took possession of it. You might want to consider a rotator in the mix to alleviate using the wheel. There is plenty of back travel on the focusor so that and an OAG should fit in nicely.

I have not noticed any colour caste either. Overall it is a nice scope with very sharp optics.

[gregbradley]

Ah sorry I got that confused with the TEC. I only ever used a guide scope whuch worked fine but the MMOAG always is better.

Yes that is how you use the captains wheel. Edx111 I think has no captains wheel and has thenTak caa35 rotator instead and it works fine.

Greg.

[RickS]

I have a FSQ-106ED and had some problems with tilt that I solved by racking in and locking the focuser and using an Atlas :thumbsup:

Cheers,
Rick.

[gregbradley]

The clamshell is OK. But I used SoCal rings on a dovetail plate.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Thanks heaps for all the great feedback guys...think I may be leaning toward the EDXIII or latest EDXIV version I think?..gotta make sure it can handle the big black FLI bird :)

This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSMx7XlkIbI) scares me though :question:

Mike

[gregbradley]

That's the sort of thing I have read about on the Tak Uncensored Yahoo Group a lot in the past. Not everyone but definitely an issue. I was lucky with mine and did not have flex issues.

Rick's solution sounds the best. Atlas and rack in the focuser and get adapters to take the bits to the right spacings.

Greg.

[Kunama]

Saw the video......

The FSQ focuser can be adjusted to counter that movement, there are 2 grub screws on the focuser body either side of the pinion assembly that can be adjusted to remove that movement. They have been sealed with clear varnish and need to have a drop of acetone on them to soften the seal. First you need to remove the pinion assembly completely, then adjust the draw tube guide grub screws, once that is done, reinstall the pinion assembly. The pinion mesh with the rack is also adjustable using four small grub screws adjacent to each of the set screws that hold the assembly onto the focuser. Use feeler gauge to set the pinion assembly square.

[Octane]

All I know is that the FSQ-106N is a classic beauty. ;)

I have thought several times to sell it as it's just sitting in the garage doing nothing, but, I would regret it forevermore.

H

[casstony]

While R&P focusers vary a bit in design the units I've adjusted (including Tak, WO and Skywatcher) need the same two basic adjustments:

(1) remove the pinion block to adjust the tension on the drawtube, removing any lateral movement of the drawtube;
(2) tighten the nut on the microfocuser to increase load carrying ability, then reinstall the pinion.

The Tak microfocusers can be adjusted without any disassembly using a provided hex key.

I haven't seen the fsq106 focusers and I haven't pulled apart a FT R&P.

[strongmanmike]

Yes I suspected all that about the focuser but good to hear none the less :thumbsup: Just hoping the NJP will handle the load ok (quietly confident it will but worried reality may hit once the whole ProLine-FSQ train is in my hands :question:) but if it does... I will have two complete imaging systems side by side each capable of guiding themselves, one narrow field and one wide field....Nirvana! :)

Thanks again

[gregbradley]

A dual system would be very productive. I can see the appeal. Hmm, maybe I should look at that. Another scope? oh no someone stop me!! The only thing there is not every target suits a wide field view as well as the narrow field view. But a lot do.

My best guess is your NJP would handle it but only just. You'd be at the limit. I successfully imaged with a TEC180 and guide scope on an NJP. That was a very long tube and its quite a heavy scope - about 20kg plus cameras etc.

The FSQ is ideal for that and a classic scope with more runs on the board than any other scope. AP130GTX with reducer/corrector though would be hot.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Well, mounting them side by side inside a 2.3m Sirius dome with only a 600mm wide slit will make using them both at the same time impractical, especially given that I manually rotate the dome, heck I'd be rotating every 10 or 15min or less! to keep them both looking through the opening :doh:... but the idea that I can image wide or narrow field in broad or narrowband, depending on how I feel, is rather exciting :D. I had considered getting another mount, perhaps a G11 to use outside the dome with the FSQ but the thought of having to setup, at least partially, each night again and the dew and ice... doesn't really grab me, nor does building another observatory :scared:

Mike

[Atmos]

I have a solution... Give it to me :P I already setup every night anyway, it'll get used!

[strongmanmike]

Ha ha yeah I did for maaaany years too Col...but never again :scared: Only a few years ago I used to pack all this (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/94059384/original) into my car (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/104160129/original) after work, drive 45min out to Kurri Kurri west of Newcastle, set it all up, image all night (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/116099335/original), pack it all up at dawn (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/131637507/original) and load it back in the car, drive 45min back to Newcastle, unpack it all into my lounge room to dry off...go to sleep for a few hours, get up and pack it all away dry ready for the next night.....:sadeyes: did it a few times then started leaving the pedestal (40kg) and NJP mount (25kg) with counterweights (25kg) setup out at Kurri Kurri and just took everything else out each time... did this for two years :)

I still like driving out to my gear now outside Canberra but it all needs to be setup and ready to go when I get there :thumbsup:

Mike

[Atmos]

I'd be quite happy just to "borrow" your 16803 and put it on my scope :P

[strongmanmike]

Ha ha, yeah, I'm sure you would ;).....it's a great camera, love the sound of its 3 whirring fans and then seeing the chip temp sitting at -30C even though the summer night air is at +28C and I'm in shorts, bare feet and a singlet (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/141334067/original) :D

Mike

[Atmos]

I love what I assume is a battery, with the handle bar it just looks like a giant weight :P
There is currently a PL16803 on the classifieds that I would love and it is at a good price. Officially I can comfortably afford it in a few weeks time but I think a house in 12 months time wins... Although... I could do both :lol: