Semi dark sky locations North West of Melbourne

[Star_Geezer]

Hi all,
I was just wondering if anyone knows of any nice locations to set up a telescope North West of Melbourne to beat the city lights? I went for a drive around Woodend and Macedon but nothing really caught my eye (although the viewing can be reasonably good around there). Any ideas would be great!

[Atmos]

Maybe heading towards Melton or Bacchus March?

[janoskiss]

Just a few km North of Mt Samaria State Park was where I've ever seen the deepest. And I've travelled far and wide in search of dark skies over the past 10 years. I spent a lot of time under the night sky almost everywhere in Victoria and also North of the border in NSW. Mt Samaria SP was the best in my experience. (There is free camping in the park as well.) I've never seen the Milky Way sparkle so and the dust lanes so detailed and distinct. It was a clear winter night. I was so impressed that I was compelled to post about it at the time: www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=12639

The skies have degraded since. It's mostly not due to light pollution but changing climate. Summer skies in Victoria are becoming more and more humid (sub-tropical like) which reduces transparency. Winter skies have fewer clear nights (than summer nights) but when it's clear in winter it's likely to be better than any clear summer night.

[Star_Geezer]

Cheers for the prompt replies fellas. Colin, I reckon that whole Melton area is a bit busy with light pollution as it has turned into Lego land for builders in the last few years.
I had never heard of Mt Samaria but just looked it up on Google maps. I could imagine that being a cracking spot Steve, with even smallish towns a bit of a drive away. I holiday in Bright a couple of times a year so will be sure to check it out!
I was wondering though if there was some good quality skies a bit closer? Maybe just an hour or so from the Essendon side of town? I find the hardest thing close to Melbourne is finding a good spot that's not someone's property or on a footy oval with the odd light and sprinklers!!

[janoskiss]

If you want something closer, you need to settle for a compromise. One of the best easy access locations outside the skiing season is Lake Mountain. There are two big carparks on the way up the mountain set up for skiers. These are normally deserted when there is not enough snow to ski on.

The best one is at the very top. You plonk your telescope and your recliner camping chair in the middle and you have unobstructed view of the whole sky. Camping is allowed and free in the forest and there is even some basic shelter at the top carpark (there were toilets too last I checked; but that was before black Saturday). And there is not a soul around usually, especially at night. And no artificial lights. (If you stay overnight, you'll see/hear motorbike riders in the morning; they just enjoy riding up and down the mountain.)

A longer drive with darker skies is Mt Baw Baw. Same idea: big open unused spaces set up for skiers and deserted outside skiing season. Also, a little bit of altitude can help with seeing.

[janoskiss]

PS. You can also try heading down towards Wilsons Prom but Lake Mountain is my all time fave semi-local. And the drive is gorgeous (though I am still heartbroken and get emotional about Marysville after Black Sat). If all that's still too far, join the ASV and use their dark site ~10-12km north of Heathcote. http://www.asv.org.au

[MattT]

Hi Ben,
Wombat state forest might be what your after. Have camped at Firth camp ground which has no lights and no level ground either! Trees all around but still enough sky.

https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=wombat%20state%20forest%20campi ng&tbs=lf_msr:-1,lf:1,lf_ui:1&rflfq=1&rlha=0&tbm=lcl&oll=-37.5491293,144.412

Matt

[pfitzgerald]

I'll second the Mt Samaria region. I have relatives who live outside of Mansfield and the best observing and images of 'faint' DSOs that I have taken have been from their property.

Kinglake has a few good spots for viewing/imaging to the North of Melbourne, but as soon as you look South Melbourne spoils things.

HTH

Paul

[bugeater]

There may be some spots around Lauriston or Upper Coliban reservoirs. There are parking spots here and there that would mainly be deserted at night except for the occasional fisherman. I think Premier Mine road takes you to some spots on the east side of Upper Coliban. Only thing is whether it attracts the local hoons at night.

[AstralTraveller]

Interesting comment. In February we camped at Kelly's Tree, which is not far to the east of Mt Samaria and at 800m elevation. There is a large, basically flat, clearing in the centre of the camping area big enough for a dozen scopes. We were there for five nights and two of them were great, in fact one was superb. Faint stars (mag ~ 6) sitting just above the trees (elevation <10*) were rock solid; not a hint of flickering. Although we only had 10x50 binos I still spent a couple of happy hours enjoying the big splashy fuzzies. I really haven't seen skies that good for many years. The last three nights were affected by the moon and some cloud but a couple of times when I got up for the midnight widdle the sky was, again, great. However, even in Feb it was cold at night and was soon driven back under the covers.

[Phil Hart]

Pykes Creek Reservoir just off the M8 to Ballarat is not a bad site but is in a very cloudy site . Also true for much of the M8 from Bacchus Marsh to Ballarat (often worse even than sites further south) with cloud forming around those hills even when the rest of the state might be clear. Same is true for Mt Macedon.

If you can get north your odds improve a lot. Around Kyneton area is worth a look but unfortunately the public Coliban Water site next to Lauriston Dam is closed at night. There are other roads in this area that look to provide possible spots. I've been wanting to check out this spot but haven't got there yet:

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/37%C2%B017'13.0%22S+144%C2%B023'53. 3%22E/@-37.2869496,144.3974252,335m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Hanging Rock visitor area would be ok but also closed at night - frustratingly hard to find good spots in this area!

Phil

[bugeater]

Car headlights may be a problem, though they aren't that common along there. There is also a small parking spot on the opposite side of the dam wall, about 200 meters along that could be a possibility. It's also raised up quite high.

There is also an access road on the western side of Lauriston Dam. I've never been down there as it was closed due to falling pines. If they've finally removed them, there could be a lot of open sky.

Hmmm I've just googled and it looks like they are harvesting the dangerous pines at the moment. It's only about 3 or 4 years late....

[janoskiss]

I speak from my experience, you speak from yours. I have spent ~10 years and 100s of nights chasing dark skies. I've also regularly looked at weather patterns and data from meteorological agencies, satellites and so on. The trend seems to be in the direction of less transparency in summer skies of Victoria. I would bet about 10 to 1 that this is in fact the case but I'd not be willing to offer better odds. (In technical terms, in my best judgement I have a 1.6-sigma result --- I am 90% sure I am right and reckon there is 10% chance I'm wrong). Adding your one-night-experience data point to my findings does not significantly impact on my conclusions.

[Star_Geezer]

Thanks for all of these ideas. I have put Mt Samaria in the memory bank for when I go up that way in a few months as this spot sounds ideal. I am keen to check out this Wombat State Forest area soon too though, thanks Matt. I'm thinking that there will surely be some spots around Tylden or Trentham region as it is a quiet part of the world. I'll go for a drive soon and let you know if I find any locations worth sharing.:)

[pfitzgerald]

Crystal Lakes Cabins in Snake Valley, where the SVAA have a couple of Astro Camps each year, is also a good spot.

The only downside would be that under 'normal' conditions there is a whacking great security light that illuminates the cabins at night, ruining the the view to the north.

Having a look at Google Maps may provide clues to other possible venues in the vicinity.

Paul

[AstralTraveller]

Whoa, Steve. Back up there a bit. I wasn't drawing conclusions or attempting to affect yours. You commented on a good observing site and a great night you had there and I responded with a story about great viewing from a site nearby. End of story. If I had been trying to draw conclusions I could have added that the rest of the 17 nights we were in the area were pretty ordinary. But why would I comment when my experience is next to nothing?

[barx1963]

Just to clarify Paul's post, the camps at Snake Valley are run under a separate umbrella to the SVAA. The SVAA has a site that is accessible by members and has open nights on new moon fridays. Details are on their website at http://ballaratman.wix.com/svaa#!

We have a separate group that just runs the bi annual camps, the next one is on October, let me know if you want to be added to the email list and I will send details when they are available.

Cheers

Malcolm

[janoskiss]

There is nothing to back up from (but I see your point). I've given my findings and my confidence (and lack thereof) in them. Your experience is not next to nothing, it just does not appreciably impact on what I conclude from what I've learnt. I was just being straight up. In hindsight, my dry scientific tone was less than friendly. I apologise for that.

PS I told a lie. Skies 10km or so inland north of Seaspray VIC were probably the best I've experienced --- in terms of transparency (not seeing). Best seeing comes after the fog storm through Snake Valley in the wee hours. You rush to cover your scope and other gear to stop it dewing up and when the fog clears you get some amazing planetary views. It's kind of like the sky has a fit and then it stops dead still.