Vixen SSW 83° eyepieces

[MortonH]

Came across these last night. Seemingly they were displayed at Photokina last year but won't be available until October this year. I hadn't heard of them before.

No specs yet apart from the focal lengths and AFOV. Might be interesting.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-ssw-83-degree-eyepieces.html

I also read on CN that the LVW line is being discontinued.

[mental4astro]

If these new Vixen EPs can maintain the same performance in fast Neetonians as the LVW line, then it is a step forward!

However, I can already see many people will write them off only because of their colours! :rolleyes: won't be the first time an EP line gets the bird only because of their esthetics...

Interesting that Vixen has limited this line to 1.25" barrel size.

[MortonH]

I love the colours!

[strongmanmike]

Hmmm I just received my 5mm LVW in the post today, which completes my eyepiece collection, until I have to return my 11mm Nagler I borrowed from Matt Wastell at SPSP this year. If the 5mm LVW performs well, when I return the 11mm Nag to Matt next year I may well replace it with the Vixen 10mm SSW :thumbsup:

Mike

[Profiler]

Ditto - they certainly look good

Interestingly - and I am not certain whether this is a true trend - but when Japanese manufacturers make widefiled EP they seem to be limit the FL range. Here are these new Vixen eyepieces with the highest FL being 14mm and Takahashi with their widefiled range only extends to 10mm FL

[MortonH]

Don't the Japanese tend to use 1.25" eps only? That limits the FL to about 16mm.

[Profiler]

I think 24mm if fov expanded to 68' and 14 if expanded to 82'

However, when pushing these limits is when all sorts of other distortions begin to crop up.

Whatever the case I like them and the colours. However, if I had to guess they are essentially naglers by Vixen. What will be interesting to determine is the ER they offer. If they can maintain the traditional 20mm ER then they will be a hit for sure.

[MortonH]

On CN some people found some Japanese info that seems to translate to around 15mm eye relief. Probably can't expect any more than that in such a wide design.

[Wavytone]

Well a 14mm SSW doesn't come close to replacing the 42mm LVW in terms of true field of view so for one, I'm keeping my LVW set. ;)

If they added two more around 22mm and 35 mm then maybe they'll be of interest.

[Wavytone]

One of the things I like most about my LVW set - the 42mm is 2" and the rest are dual 2"/1.25", so I can dispense with 1.2" adapters for the whole range.

[GrahamL]

Similarish colour wise to the tmb super mono line ,clever marketing !

[Steffen]

There is even a (Product)Red one! ;)

[Camelopardalis]

Be interesting to see how they compare to Pentax XW, besides the extra FOV of course ;)

[Profiler]

I would also be interested in their size and weight. The problem with so many of the modern eyepieces is in providing that big field view also comes with a big piece of hardware which, in some instances, make them impractical to use.

[MortonH]

Posted by Don Pensack on CN:

Just heard:
New Vixen SSW 83 degree eyepieces will be available for sale at Vixen Optics USA dealers on July 31
Retail $349ea. Japanese-made.
Focal lengths: 14, 10, 7, 5, 3.5mm
7 element design using tantalum and lanthanum glass
Eye relief all sizes: 13mm
Hexagonal body can't roll if put down sideways.
Weights: 230g for 3.5 and 5mm, 225g for 7mm, 220g for 10mm, 210g for 14mm
There is a barrel undercut, but it is designed to not catch on compression rings.

[Profiler]

Going off the spec's for fl, fov and ER it seems that Vixen are essentially following the design parameters of T6 Naglers

[Wavytone]

Not necessarily. 3.5 and 5mm are same as the shorter LVW focal lengths. From there it makes a lot of sense to step up using a ratio of 1.4x from one to the next as they have done.

What's annoying is that they stopped short - IMHO they need two more at 21 and 30mm to make it an attractive set over Naglers or the ES eyepieces.

The size of the shorter ones and constant eye relief imply they used a Smyth lens design pretty much as they did with the LVWs - do not assume they copied Televue.

[MortonH]

Wonder how much they'll cost here...?

[MortonH]

That was my first thought. AFOV is 1º more than a Nagler, eye relief is 1mm more than a Nagler, weight around the same as a Nagler, and I believe Naglers also use Lanthanum.

The question is whether they have better transmission or more neutral tone, otherwise why would someone choose them when they are similarly priced, or even more expensive than Naglers?

Will be interesting to see the first reports on their performance, and if the price comes down.

[PlanetMan]

Not sure I follow this - there are T6 Naglers in 3.5mm and 5mm FL and just like the T6 naglers they only go up to 13mm (Televue) and 14mm for these Vixens

[Wavytone]

DSomeone suggested vixen copied Nagler. I doubt it - the idea of the Smythe lens predates both - which both Nagler and Vixen used (as well as ES, Pentax and Nikon not to mention Baader and the cheap Chinese clones). The Smythe lens idea is the basis of every UWA eyepiece design.

The other point is the LVW set spanned the range from 3.5mm which is as about as short as anyone could usefully want, right up to one that has a field stop as large as can be squeezed into a 2" barrel (the 42mm) - and all can be used with a 2" focusser and weigh close enough that there's no balancing needed. There still isn't another set that does this.

And as for focal lengths Vixen made the largest range of focal lengths bar none in the LV range (ceased manufacture years ago). Something for every one there - 2.5 - 50mm.

As for the SSW... an 82 degree field in a 2" barrel works out at roughly 30mm focal length, and between that and 14 mm there's a factor of two, so slotting one in at 21 mm would make a decent set.

The only snag is the SSW's are small and don't have a dual 2" barrel which rather suggests Vixen won't make a 21 or 30, or if they do they'll be oddballs. Pity.

TV created the same problem in that to span this range you need a clutch of Naglers and a couple of Panoptics.

[PlanetMan]

I think the exact word was "follow" not 'copied' as you stated. Given that the existence of the Naglers came first and both brands employ an optical design that neither manufacturer actually invented then I think the earlier comment is correct.

Please don't misunderstand me - I personally think there is a lot of hype with Televue Eyepieces and many other brands are just as good or better but at half the price - Vixen is a perfect example of this so I am glad they are making these eyepieces and the reference to Nagler is merely a way of recognising this new range of Vixen EP is a 80+ afov

[Don Pensack]

I will be testing these in the coming days, though we have 10 days of clouds predicted.
I'm looking for lateral color (prism or CA), astigmatism, brightness (transmission), comfort in use (adjustable eyecup looks promising), coloration of the image, flatness of field, suitability for short focal ratios, etc.
Will they work well in short dobs? The jury is still out.

[MortonH]

The new Vixens are listed as in stock by some vendors in the US. RRP (US$) is $490 but actual price is $349 (versus $310 for a Nagler Type 6).

http://www.vixenoptics.com/category-s/161.htm


No first light reviews yet. Don, how's your weather? :D

[Don Pensack]

I want to test these and do a write-up but we are having typical weather for SoCal every day:
low clouds and fog until 2pm, then clearing to sunny blue skies. Clouds and fog roll back in right around sunset and we're cloudy until 2pm the next day.
I have had zero clear nights here since a month ago.
I want to test the new TeleVue DeLites and these new Vixen SSWs, but, for some reason, I can't find my cloud filter. :-(

[MortonH]

I asked MyAstroShop about availability of the SSW.

They said hopefully within 4 weeks with their next shipment from Japan.

Based on the current exchange rate, expected price is around $400.

If $400 is right, that would make them about 10% cheaper than a new Nagler T6 here, so will be very interesting to see how they compare.

[MortonH]

Don Pensack has posted his first light comparison with Nagler T6's and DeLites. The Vixens came last.

http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/509216-a-night-testing-tv-delites-t6-naglers-and-vixen-ssws/

[mental4astro]

By the sounds of the aberrations Don had noted, these Vixen EPs are not for Newtonians. But nobody on CN seems to notice that the review was only done with a Newt, and not a refractor, SCT or Mak.

[MortonH]

Don did say he's going to test them in his 4" f/7 apo to see if they perform better.

He also points out that they're not BAD eyepieces, just not quite as good as the Nagler T6's (despite being more expensive in the US).

[AG Hybrid]

He was even using a coma corrector too. Maybe they are good in SCT's?

[mental4astro]

Morton you are right. My freaking phone gave me trouble when editing my post, and I have not had access to a machine to change my original post.

Yes, the comment of Don's is that these EP's work well in a refractor. But this is as a small comment on the side, not in the major review. This is where most of the bad press will come towards these eyepieces.

The point is that these eyepieces are focal plane specific. It does not mean there is anything wrong with them. It just means they are not suited to Newtonians, which is not the largest market for telescopes in Japan who prefer Cats and refractors - which these eyepieces appear to be matched to, as you suggest Adrian. As such I do not have a problem with this. I understand the matching of scope and eyepiece optics. But many people do not. I have several eyepieces that are scope specific, and I do not interchange them from scope design to the other as I know they will not 'work'. But put in the right scope and they are a ripper.

[Wavytone]

Alex the eyepiece reviews on cloudynights are also dominated by short dob users. Anyone else might as well not exist as far as they're concerned. I think you know this, and where Don Pensack fits in that community.

I'm only interested to see if anyone puts these and a few others on an optical bench and makes some objective quantitative measurements. So far no-one has.

Once again the issue of choosing the right eyepiece to match the aberrations of the scope arises, but Don won't admit as much.

Anyway the quality of most threads on cloudynights seems to have declined badly lately.

[WilliamPaolini]

I wish more folks understood this better. I am so tired of hearing that an eyepiece is fundamentally "bad". Most of the time they are judged "bad" because they were used improperly, outside their operating parameters. As example, do not expect a 3 element design to perform so hot in an f/4 scope. Just not going to happen. But put it in an f/8 scope and like you said, can be "ripper" :)

[Don Pensack]

Well, I did get a chance to use them here at home in my 4" f/7 triplet apo refractor (714mm focal length).

Some notes:
The only aberrations noted were some astigmatism at the edge (and it was just a *trace* better than in the coma-corrected dob), and the same exit pupil issues I noted in the dob.
All other characteristics were not noted in the somewhat brighter skies of my home. Edge reflections, field stop focus, lateral chromatic issues all went without notice.
I intend to use these again in the refractor at a dark site so I can evaluate the other issues I saw in the newtonian.
I don't have an f/10 or longer scope to test these in, but they likely would perform better in regards to edge of field astigmatism in the longer f/ratios.
These likely would be excellent in long f/ratio refractors and Maks.
I am concerned with the exit pupil issues, though. There are some issues with acquiring and holding the field when using these.
To put that in perspective, it is nowhere near the problem of using the original Naglers, which had kidney bean blackouts dues to spherical aberration of the exit pupil. I think you would only notice it in the Vixens if switching to another eyepiece that had no such issue.
Given the refractor has close to 1/3 the focal length of the newtonian, I was surprised to not notice any notable field curvature.
I'll post more when I get a chance to use them at my dark site, which is at least 4 magnitudes darker than my home.

[MortonH]

MyAstroshop is now showing prices for these, suggesting they may be in stock.

Unfortunately the price is rather high at $465 :eyepop: