EQ6 Teflon Washers

[Solitarian]

I'm stripping down and revamping a 6-7 year old, (but brand new) EQ6.

Does anyone know if and where the teflon washers can be sourced from in Australia.

Or if washers of different material can be used in place of the teflon.

Thanks.

[eddiedunlop]

I've made washers out of plastic milk bottles (HDPE I think) and used them in various mounts. Use as many as needed to get the right thickness.

[traveller]

Garbz (Chris) had a contact of a guy who can stamp out delrin rings.
Try giving him a pm.
Bo

[Solitarian]

Thanks Bo, I sent him a pm, he had some bearings and washers up for sale not long ago, I missed out by a few days, would have it too easy if I was quicker.

[traveller]

I actually got four bearing from Chris, but wasn't quick enough to get all the washers.
If you get some, I will get some as well and we can go halves. I don't know the exact thickness of the rings yet as I haven't taken apart my mount yet.
Let me know if you are keen.
Bo

[Solitarian]

Thanks, I did just that, at least I can finish cleaning , regreasing and putting it back together.

I'll replace them when I find a permanent replacement. It doesn't take much effort to replace them.

Cheers

[Solitarian]

No problems, I'll find some somewhere, I'll let you know.

The washers I took out were brittle and 1 fell apart into 3 pieces.

Unused but 6-7 years old and they failed. Makes me wonder what would the washers be like in used ones.

[trent_julie]

Hey Guys,
I recently cut some washers on my laser cutter. It was some plastic that I use for vacuum forming. I'm only into my second week but the washers seem to be doing very nicely.

Trent

[Garbz]

I sourced mine from a guy in the states. Doug: skygazer@kennaquhair.com

As far as material properties go Teflon has problems in that it doesn't do well under compression. Hence Delrin being the choice of hypertuning.

HDPE is not a good substitute in this case. It deforms under pressure more easily than Teflon. Delrin (or Acetal) beat both under compression by a factor of 6

[trent_julie]

What if I offered to do a run? What sort of plastic would be preferred?

[Solitarian]

Thanks Chris

The delivery time from the states is a put off, that's why I want to source locally.

The product (Acetal) is available here, it's finding someone that will supply a small quantity and cut out the rings.

I'll keep hunting

[Solitarian]

Acetal

[Solitarian]

Looking at the broken original rings last night, they are not teflon, it's just a stiff plastic.
There's a lot of plastics that would be a better substitute and would fill the gap.
For long term performance, it's like Chris said, acetal, it has the properties to perform well.

[trent_julie]

Hi Solitarian,
My washers are made with a polycarbonate. I don't have any Acetal here at home. I am hunting down Acetal sheets now. I think the biggest problem would be getting the thickness you want locally. Ebay has 1.5mm but it comes from the states.

[trent_julie]

1mm, supplier in Sydney

[Solitarian]

Finding the assortment of thicknesses will be the hard part.
The thrust washers under the worm gear are also shims for proper meshing of the worm drive. Those washers' sizes are the critical ones.
The thickness of the thrust washers above the worm drive on the Dec, only seem to change the gap between the collar and the mount.

[trent_julie]

I will speak with the Sydney supplier and find out what the options are.

[Solitarian]

Good stuff Trent, they may have different sizes available to them.

[Garbz]

The EQ6 has shipped with a variety of greases and washers over the years. Teflon is the more current practice from what I can gather.



Don't go overboard on different sizes. The ones that came out of the mount were all identical sizes. 0.25mm I think. The kit I bought came with 0.1mm 0.2mm and 0.3mm sets from what I remember.

You're right about the washers above the worm drive but bear in mind that if the spacing of these isn't correct the collar will jam against the mount (as I figured out when I removed a washer from below and forgot to put it in above the ring gear.

[Solitarian]

I had .25mm , .50mm and 1mm washers in mine. No correlation to what was needed.

What I need are 15 thou (.38mm) and 20 thou (.50mm) for below the worm gears.
I don't need any above the worm gears, the casings fit nicely without any. I'd rather have a better thrust surface than the bare casing metal, so a minimal sized washer is needed there.
The .1mm .2mm .3mm kit sizes would most likely do , stacked to accommodate the larger gaps.

[trent_julie]

OK,
There seems to be quite a few varying sizes that people want. The sizes I have identified are .07mm, .01mm .254mm, and .508mm. It is expensive stuff. I'm happy to hear your thoughts.

Trent

[Solitarian]

Good work ,
I'd go for the .254mm out of those sizes as a minimum single choice. That gives the same tolerances as the factory design, all .25mm increments for shimming it seems. They just didn't have good enough QC to install them correctly in the beginning, I don't know about the new mounts QC these days.

Certainly is, and there will be more waste than product, that hurts the per washer cost. Sheet size is also a concern.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Delrin-Acetal-Black-Sheet-031-x-12-x-12-/111025877959?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d9a873c7
That's the kind of deal we need, in thinner sizes would be great.

[RobF]

Nothing but praise for Doug Dieter - responded promptly to my email and a standard envelope arrived in about a week from US if my memory serves me correctly. A full set of different thickness in delrin, all cut to correct shaft size. Minimal stuffing around, good price. Can understand if you're desperate to get going next few days though.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/9413-eq6-stripdown/

Email: skygazer(at)kennaquhair.com

[Garbz]

!!!! 1mm! That's about the total shim distance needed for one of the worms. You sure there weren't 3 washers in there just stuck together. ;) I may have made just that mistake when I opened up my enveloper.

[Solitarian]

He's always the first person people recommend, it's good to know he's there. He'll be my fall back if I can't find a substitute in Oz.
It's just the mounts have been around so long, 13 years and yet there is still no supply for the aftermarket washers locally, that we know of.
Doesn't hurt to try

Cheers

[Solitarian]

Umm, I'm pretty sure :question:

;)

[trent_julie]

Thanks for the images. I have always found bugs bunny to be an accurate measure.

Its looking like .508 and the closest to 1mm could be a go.

I am happy to supply locally, I have already laser cut my own. I just need a general consensus on size so I can invest my own capital.

Incidentally the black colored plastic is more expensive than the "natural" plastic.

(P.S it has only taken me 6 years to make 500 posts....)

Trent

[Solitarian]

Congrats on the 500 Trent.:thumbsup:

I'd go .25mm and .50mm, 1mm is a bit too big.
A .10mm size would add a finer tune to those 2 sizes if available.
Hopefully others can throw in some thoughts on sizes, even anyone thats done the tune previously, they may chip in with what they've used, be nice to have a cross section of whats needed or been used.

[traveller]

I replace the dec worm bearing last night and measured the washer needed, it turns out I had two Teflon washers in there each 0.4 mm thick. If I use both, it's too much but if I use just one, I need another 0.25 mm spacer.
So I either need a 0.25 mm to add to my existing 0.4 mm or a 0.65 mm to replace my existing.
Bo

[technofetishism]

Definatly watching this thread, need to tear down my mount again as something's iffy with the RA, might as well correct the spacing while im in there.

[trent_julie]

Guys,
Just as a progress check I haven't had much luck getting a supplier for such a small amount of plastic.

Teflon I can get no problems. POM is proving difficult.

Trent

[Solitarian]

If we're stuck with teflon for now, so be it.
Fitting the incorrect thickness at the factory I think is more of a problem than the material substance itself, I'd be happy to use Teflon shims of the correct thickness.
A source of acetal may be be found later.
If you're prepared to go that way Trent, I'll jump in as well.

[trent_julie]

OK,
.25mm teflon on its way. Should be here within 10 days. The laser cutting doesn't take too long.

I guess the next conversation is size.

Trent

[Solitarian]

Size?

[trent_julie]

The washers that I cut up for the Dec axis are;

Top (on top of Dec gear)
60.8mm OD
40.1mm ID

and

Bottom (closest to counter weight)
30.2mm ID
44.7mm OD

I would hate to cut and find that there are large tolerances.

Trent

[Solitarian]

I'd expect the shafts to be the same, I'll go with what you decide.
I measured my old washers and they're 40-41mm ID and 56mm OD

[Garbz]

Exact size is not critical. It doesn't need to fit snugly and doesn't need to (in fact doesn't at all) extend to the outside of the bearing.

I'd say OD is almost irrelevant, and ID needs to cover the bearing face that it sits on, and that's about it.

Measure the shaft diameter and add a small sum (0.2mm or something like that) to the ID would be my suggestion. If they are too tight then they become an absolute pain to put on and take off, the top washers which would then sit in a position where you couldn't pry them out with a screwdriver.

[trent_julie]

The teflon arrived yesterday and I attempted the first cut tonight.

It is not an easy material to work with! Nor cheap to make mistakes with. I will solve some issues over the weekend and make a progress report. That being said, the laser does cut the teflon nicely. The teflon keeps on wanting to go back to its original shape mid cut... so I will need to find a way to keep it stuck down.

Trent

[Solitarian]

Good luck with it, keep us updated either way.

[torana68]

looking for some washers for 1.25" shafts? anyone update this thread or suggest another option? Roger

[creeker]

Acetal is a good choice to use. The Dupont trade name for it is Delrin. It's tough stuff with good wear qualities. Before I retired I used it often to make replacement parts in CNC machines. As others said Acetal is better under compression than Teflon, and not brittle like some plastics.
regards
Ed

[torana68]

might have to turn some up, unless I find a supplier