Astrophotography Newbie questions

[dugnsuz]

Hi All,
I have acquired a broken (to costly to repair) Pentax Spotmatic body with the following lenses:
Pentax – screw thread type...

1.Super-Takumar 1:1.8/55
2.Pentacon 3.5/30
3.Pentacon 2.8/135

As I haven't got a clue regarding astrophotography (but like to have a go), my questions are...

1.Are these lenses good for anything?
2.If so,could they fit onto a DSLR body?
3.Is an EQ3C mount + RA drive adequate for driven wide field shots of the milky way?
4.What is the best/budget DSLR for taking wide field shots?
5.Or, should I just get an old Pentax or generic camera body!!?

To cut a long story short, I want to take wide field and telephoto astro-shots and would like to know the best way to get into it on a budget!!
Cheers and thanks in advance of any replies!
Doug:thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Budget?

Philips Toucam, or Celestron Neximage, or Meade LPI. Cheapest way I know. :thumbsup:

[dugnsuz]

Hi Ken
Not interested in planetery avi stuff.
More into those wide field milky way vistas!
Cheers
Doug

[ballaratdragons]

ummm, Doug,

I took this image with a Toucam! and it is cropped!! I have stacks of widefields in my Lappy of Milky Way, Virgo, Scorpius, Saggitarius etc. all done with my Toucam :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

I forgot to mention how I take widefields with the Toucam.

I don't use a scope, lense or anything. I just use the Toucam straight out of the box. Point and shoot.

Oh, I do use the 'Long Exposure Mod' mode though for the widefields. My widefields are captured using a single exposure in 'Desire' at around 35 seconds.

[dugnsuz]

Pardon my ignorance Ken:doh:
That is a great shot - exactly what I want to do!
Cheers
Doug:thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

I was just suggesting a cheaper option Doug. You may still want to go the Digital camera way.

If you use a Toucam, Neximage, etc you may need to also purchase a laptop unless you have a way of getting your desktop outside.

Happy Hunting.

[netwolf]

Ken, you do what.. gees that shot is great for just the Toucam with no lense/telescope. I have a neximage. Whats this long exposure mod, is it permanent hardware fix or software controled. Can it be reveresed. And what capture software did you use? I want to try this.

[RB]

:eyepop:
Wow Ken it's awesome.

Please show us more.
:thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

The Toucam can be modified to take long exposures (about $150 I think) which enable it to take images as long as you want. Even hours if you like the look of hot pixels
and the Meade LPI can take exposures up to 30 seconds (correct me if I am wrong please) and I think the Neximage can also take long exposure (about 15 - 30 seconds).

The long exposure mod is a conversion done to a Toucam. Yes it can be reversed simply by unsoldering the modification, but why would you want to. I have heard of people in Cloudy Nights doing the conversion themselves, but it is very fiddly. Best left to the right electronics bloke.

The capture program I use is 'Desire' (free download) but there are others.

As far as Neximage goes, might be worth googling 'Neximage long exposure' and see what others say about it. I can only help with the Toucam.

Yep, the Toucam takes great images without a scope. Just pop it on the baby tripod supplied or mount it on a mount with tracking, set the exposure time to whatever you want, and press start. Bingo! One long exposure widefield pic. Easy stuff.
You can also take multiples and stack them (I am yet to learn this).

[ballaratdragons]

I can when I get the Lappy back off Cheryl. They are in it. The only other pic using the naked Toucam I have in this pooter is the one I took of our Bushfire a few months back.

Focus is lousy as I was in a rush to take it and get to safety. I just carried the Toucam and Lappy outside, rested it on the car Boot and took 2 x 5 second exposures! then raced back inside to pack our belongings, then I processed them and joined the 2 pics together the next day.

I think I stuck some widefield pics in here a few months ago using the naked lappy, can't remember.

[ballaratdragons]

Hmmm, just found some old ones I stuck in here last year!!!

These were my first go at naked Toucam imaging, and no tracking. I have since learnt which exposures work best.

Here are the old ones: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=6378&highlight=widefield

[RB]

Amazing shot of the fire and the first wide fields are good. I also remember the trapizium you did last year.
The Crux that you've just posted is a big improvement, it's histogram is great.

Just shows what can be done with this great camera.
It's well worth exploring the Toucam for all aspects of imaging.

Good one Ken.

[gbeal]

Doug,
the advice given by Ken is sound, and regardless of your lack of desire at this stage to do planetary, you may like the lunar/solar stuff. Besides a ToUcam is what I use to auto-guide.
The options are endless. finding another Pentax body is simple, I have three or more here. Lenses are abundant too. I have used the Pentax lenses (M42 screw thread) on my Canon DSLR (20D) by using an appropriate adaptor. Works like a charm, and provides cheaper options than buying the flash Canon lenses. While I would like to saty clear of Question #4, I reckon an older 300D or later 350D is what you are after.
The RA driven mount should be all you need for widerfield stuff, but eventually you will be pushing the boubdaries with it. Great to start with though.
Gary

[ving]

you can even get an adapter to connect your toucam to your fave 35mm lens :)

[asimov]

Wow Ken, thats a fine shot of Crux!! I'm on a roll after seeing that shot; Dave P & I are swapping 840 K's! (his is the modded version):thumbsup:

[matt]

So, if you've got the long exposure mod done on your ToUcam you can still do the short exposure planetary thing?

The mod allows you to also do long exposures, additional to the shorter exposure times offered "out of the box"?

Which would make it both a planetary and DSO cam?

Very cool

[dugnsuz]

Ken,
You've hijacked my thread with your excellent pic!!!!!:eyepop:
Thanks to all who have replied.
I'm not sure if I'm confused or enlightened, but I swing toward the latter.
Cheers all.
Doug:thumbsup:

ps: Any other comments greatfully received!

[ballaratdragons]

Oops! Sorry Doug. It was only meant to show you that Webcams can do widefield.

[ballaratdragons]

Yes Matt. It has a little switch and you can switch it to either 'normal Avi' or 'Long exposure image'.

Yes, it makes it a normal and 'Long Exposure' camera. Pretty cool huh!

But to use the 'Long exposure Mode' you must have a parallel port available on your lappy. If you use a desktop it will be ok as desktops have parallel ports.

The normal mode just uses a USB port.
'Long Exp' uses both USB and Parallel Port. :thumbsup:

[dugnsuz]

No Worries Ken,
I'm learning!!!!
Cheers
Doug:thumbsup:

[Garyh]

Hi Doug,
I have quiet a few of these lenses and they work well on the new DSLRs the old 50mm and 55mms take great shots and you can get adaptors for a few different cameras..I use my old pentax lenses on my canon 300d...Here is a pic from about 2 weeks ago...
Great thing about dslrs is that you don`t need a computer.
AS for the eq3 mount I say you will need something to guide with when using a lense over 50mm and more than a few mins exposure..
regards Gary

[IanW]

The Spotmatic's are a fine camera for astrophotography and you can find working bodies on the cheap on eBay.
The main drawback with most Spotmatic bodies is that they use PX series mercury batteries which are no longer available due to worldwide bans on environmental grounds on the manfuacturing of the batteries. However this isn't an issue for astrophotography as you'll be using the Bulb (B) setting for most work. You'll need a stopwatch or timer and a mechanical shutter release cable for astrophotography and a 'hat' for the front of the lens to reduce vibration.

The Takumar 50/1.8 is also a fine lens, as good as any of the manual focus Nikon or Canon 50mm f1.8 prime lenses. Pentacon's on the other hand were a fairly cheap and nasty range of lenses, however they will be fine for astrophotography if stopped down 1-2 stops.

The EQ3 should be fine for widefield astrophotography.
It may be worth considering giving the worm/wheel set and motor spur gears a light lapping, regrease the mount bearings and clean up the internal casing of debris etc before using it. Careful polar alignment is a must.

DSLR wise the Canon 300 or 350D and Nikon D50 are the popular choices amongst entry level DSLR's. Prices tend to vary a bit from batch to batch so it's best to check out the various retailers such as Harvey Norman, local camera shops etc. You will be able to fit your existing lenses to the body via an adapter.

[dugnsuz]

Garyh - thanks for the info and that is one lovely shot!

IanW - thankyou too for the information, most appreciated.
I have looked at the Nikon D50 as a way into DSLR imaging, but at around $1K +/- a lens - the price is just a bit prohibitive. I will soon hopefully buy an ED80, initially for wide field viewing but with a view to doing astrophotography in the future with a Spotmatic or similar film camera.
The EQ3 is really just a starting point - i realise for serious imaging something much more robust will be needed. Robust=expensive!!!!
Cheers all for the comments/suggestions
Doug

[IanW]

Doug,

Glad to be of help, in 18 months time you'll be able to pick up a used 350D or D50 DSLR body for a few hundred buck via eBay as their value drops like a stone after the next generation of bodies is released.

One thing I didn't mention is that you'll need some sort of guide scope, as your planning to get an ED80 that will make a great guidescope, just add an illuminated reticle eyepiece and you'll be in a good position for quality film based astrophotography.

Don't forget the three best films available in Australia are Fuji 800 and 400 neg films and Kodak 200 slide film. I've also had good results with Fuji Press 800. Avoid Kodak Max films like the plague as they have horrific reciprocity failure characteristics.

Cheers,
Ian

[Garyh]

No Worries Doug, you can also look at the k-mount cameras as well like the pentax k-1000 or some of the older Ricoh models as long as they are totally manual on the bulb setting or you will have flat batteries in no time, a adapter will cost you $20.
Good advice Ian, I agree that Fuji Provia 400 and Kodak e200 slide films are the way to go, with the neg films you have to hope the local camera store nows how to do star pics or you end up with horrible pics and you will be dissapointed..I can say the only Kodak neg film that is any good is kodak max versatility plus 800 (good for up to about 10-15min with good color balance) all the rest give bad results..don`t touch!!...The new Fuji negs with the 4th layer are no good as well as have tried them also. If you can get it from ebay US try Fuji HQ 200 , works very well but you have to run the risk of xray damage.. I got a batch at under $2 a roll and the results were very nice. But the slide film would be my choice now...
hope this helps...Gary

[IanW]

Never had a problem with a photolab and processing, it's really a matter of training their staff how to set up the sensitometry on their printer to suit the needs of the astrophotographer. Normally I do my own darkroom work anyway. Lucky for me I still have good stocks in deep freeze of some older better emulsions such as the legendary Kodak PPF 400 which is by far and away the best colour emulsion I've ever used.

[dugnsuz]

Hi Ian,
So what comes closest to this film stock?
Cheers
Doug:thumbsup:

[IanW]

Kodak Ektachrome 200, except e200 isn't as sensitive to reds and the Hydrogen Alpha region.