Paramount MX/SkyX Equipment Compatibility

[BlueAstra]

I currently control an EQ6 mount with MaximDL and EQMOD using W7-32 bit ASCOM interfaces in a permanent installation. I also use a Starlight Xpress SXVF-H16 camera, Starlight Xpress Filter Wheel, Starlight Express Lodestar guide camera (OAG based) and Baader Steeldrive motor focusser, all under MaximDL control with ASCOM drivers. Everything works seamlessly with MaximDL/EQMOD controlling mount position, guiding, camera exposures, filter position, etc.

I’m about to order a Paramount MX with the SkyX Pro/Tpoint/Camera Add-on to replace the EQ6 and would like to hear some words of comfort that I will be able to control all of the above equipment through the SkyX and retire MaximDL. I have read that it is possible to control ‘through’ MaximDL, and that there were some issues with Starlight Xpress cameras, but I really would like to cut down software clutter and just use the SkyX.

Can anyone confirm SkyX control of all the above equipment is possible, especially if you are actually doing it? Also is there anything I should be aware of during setup with this equipment which would make life easier? I am reading through the manuals, but real life experience is so much more valuable!

[gregbradley]

I can get Sky X to connect to SX Trius but when I try to take a photo it freezes.
I havent given it a red hot go on sorting it out. PMX mount QC is dodgy and not mature.
Sky X is really still being sorted out. It should be great in a year or so once all the bugs have been updated.
Sky X is most likely SBIG-Centric type software and other manufacturers are merely a plugin and who knows if its the latest drivers or not or how poorly implemented control is on other manufacturers.

I'd get an AP 1100 myself. Check out how many PMX users post problems with their mounts. I wonder if anyone
on this forum has gotten a PMX that worked faultlessly out of the box. I think unlikely. Still a nice mount once its
all going. But I can see its a bit of sensitive new age machine that is likely to need constant love and attention otherwise
it will chuck a hissy fit!

All that software integration is seductive but if its buggy its not so pleasant. AP is likely to work right out of the box, be super
well engineered, has superb QC and is also compatible with all this software. Plus it has an option to use accurate encoders so you
can get the mount now and later upgrade with encoders to go to the next level.

Greg

[graham.hobart]

Some of the drivers for SX cameras are being added to the next build I think, currently I have to use the ascom driver for my SXVR H9C.
Even though the TSX can control my QSI I still prefer Maxim as I get a cleaner picture to align initially though the auto calibration runs are brilliant ( under TSX)
For capturing I still use Maxim, and for guiding + dithering.
Graham
I agree with Greg that the software could do with some more maturing. Personally I don't understand why one day it can work then the next day refuse to connect although not one thing has been changed overnight-(which happened to me last week)- it sorted it self out but left me mystified as to why. Tried changing everything and updating, different cables. unplugging cameras, changing comports, ended up moving from a Windows 8 laptop to an ancient vista machine which worked fine:shrug:

[gregbradley]

Graham,

I think you have to be careful with your startup routine. I can get failures occasionally if I go out of sequence in the start up. I find its safest to boot up the computer before I turn on the mount and the cameras.

Its the windows having to recognise all the devices connected to it that goes off the rails otherwise. Not always either so it can be a bit mysterious as to what changed. But Sky X is likely to shut down with some slight event that would not faze Sky 6. Its touchier for sure.

Greg.

[BlueAstra]

Thanks for the replies. I had considered the AP1100 but I'm not sure its available yet, and it was more expensive. I have a permanent shed obs setup and OAG guiding so couldn't really justify the extra expence for the superb unguided performance. If money wasn't a factor I'd have probably gone for the AP.

Looking at the SB forums it looks like the usual issues where some people are OK and others find problems. We'll see which side I'm on when the mount arrives! The default if I have problems seems to be to connect through MaximDL.

Could be an issue with startup though. In my obs, the power switch applies power simultaneously to the computer, mount, cameras, etc when I switch on, so the computer would boot up with all peripherals 'on'. Just have to see what happens.

Graham

[Paul Haese]

Yes, well here are my thoughts.

Sky6 worked flawlessly, was simple and bug free. Never had any issues with it freezing up.

The mount. I have both a PME and a PMX. Kind of wishing I bought another second hand PME now. PMX has PMS; it sometimes comes up with the mount has hit something or needs balancing. The PEC software in Sky X appears to produce really inconsistent results. I have several curves that just do not gel with each other.

Things that do work flawlessly as the Tpoint add on and that works with my Scope dome and SBIG camera. Though the SBIG camera add on is not written specifically for the STXL series. So there are some glitches still.

I agree with Greg. Buy the AP1100. It is bound to be bullet proof. I cannot get my RC12 to guide smoothly with my PMX and quite frankly I am getting a little sick of being treated like I am stupid by SB. So right now I cannot complete final remote installation simply because it will not guide smoothly.

[Peter.M]

Unfortunately this has been my experience with many American technical staff. At my work we have service technicians from a scientific company come in when I have an issue with instrumentation. Sometimes they need more information from the states about a problem and we write them a very detailed email of what we have done. Every time we get a response it is always something we have already tried and most of the time it is the mundane task that we did first.

[gregbradley]

http://www.astro-physics.com/ AP1100 is US$8,800

http://www.optcorp.com/manufacturer/software-bisque?cat=55 PMX is US$8,995

AP1100 is cheaper than PMX just to top it off.

Greg.

[rat156]

Hi Paul,

Keep at SB, eventually you'll work out the problems. I finally have mine working pretty well. The out of balance error has several causes, mine turned out to be most of them, black drive belts that shredded, adjustment of the drive elements and finally a dud encoder on one of the motors. It took a good 12 months to work it all out, but just before Christmas I got a replacement motor for the RA drive, since then I haven't had a failure.

I agree that the SB method of requesting help through the forums is flawed, you don't feel that you are getting any attention of the various Bisques, just left to the experience of other users to sort things out. It just feels impersonal, when you have trouble that's not what you want, especially when you're on the other side of the world.

Cheers
Stuart

[frolinmod]

In my opinion you're all getting free product support and you're grousing because you don't understand how to effectively and efficiently utilize it. :rolleyes:

Are you unprofessional, angry, passive aggressive, lazy and unprepared? I see a job opportunity here. For a significant per-case fee, I propose to take your telephone calls 24/7/365 at your convenience, properly reproduce and document your problem to the hilt, stroke your ego and make you feel smart, then submit a professionally prepared high impact problem report on your behalf that will get immediate Bisque Bros attention. I will answer Daniel's incessant questions that frequently belie a disturbing lack of reading comprehension, deal with suggestions and derails from the peanut gallery while taking absolutely no prisoners as I follow up relentlessly business day after business day in contemporaneous Colorado USA time until your problem is fully resolved. What a concept. I could become rich and famous. By the way, most of the time I am the peanut gallery. ;)

[Peter Ward]

I deal with both companies. AP's pricing does not include things you might need, well, like counterweights and saddles.... Availability may be a problem as well.

[Bassnut]

Hehe, not oft said this way, but sooo true ;).

[Logieberra]

Something to keep in mind - you'll need the following items to get up and running on an AP:

-- counter weights, expect to pay $520 USD for 2 x 24lbs (the MX includes 2) and
-- dovetail holder, DOVELM162 at $240 USD is ideal (the MX includes the techy versaplate).

Cheers

[Logieberra]

Oops....Sorry Peter W...already covered by you. Above. :)

[Peter Ward]

Just some history to PME/PMX etc.

The original PME's had 2.5 arc sec of PE. Problem was it took a day or two *just to set-up the worm* and measure the bearing run-out, to make that lofty spec happen.

So the next batch was 7 arc sec. The reason is purely one of repeatable tolerance in gears and the required 1/10,000th in the first production run simply wasn't possible without a very steep price increase.

Yet I find this all a bit moot. I have seen stars drift in Dec...i.e. *the axis the is not being driven at all* 2-3 arc seconds, so minuscule RA errors (even those afforded by absolute encoders/direct drive) become somewhat meaningless when the atmosphere is doing a Sterling-job meandering starlight across your CCD.

Sure, a solid and smoothly tracking mount is a good thing, but like Death & Taxes, I suspect guiding is the next thing you simply can't avoid...

[frolinmod]

Are you totally sure about that? If so then I guess I got lucky here. (And alas I'm never lucky at anything.) My PME which I purchased new directly from SB in August 2010 has 3 arc seconds peak to peak raw PE. It's sub arc second after programming PEC.

I had a GT-1100S before that which I purchased new directly from SB in 2000 and sold in 2010. It had a raw PE of 5 arc seconds peak to peak. In all the time I had it I never programmed the PEC and never really noticed the PE. All I ever did with that mount was planetary imaging at high focal lengths and C-14 Fastar imaging at low focal lengths. The only reason why I even knew it was 5 was because one of the potential purchasers asked me to measure it a few weeks before it finally sold.

[Peter Ward]

You don't have to believe me... just look at a few older adverts.

That said, the current stated errors are the worst you can expect, and indeed, most SB mounts have decidedly better performance. (Mine runs at about +/- 2.5 arc sec )

Commercial realities are such, that you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere, eg give a PE specification, which is not a bad thing.... many manufacturers are reluctant to do even that.

[gregbradley]

I see. I guess you have to add another $1200 or so for those to the AP.

I like the sound of those precision encoders. Wow, .2 arc sec PEC. Incredible.

Greg.

[gregbradley]

I've never heard of anyone achieving .2 arc sec errors using autoguiding. Even with t-point models, ProTrack etc the best is usually just under 1 arc sec.

As Peter points out though it may be a bit wasted for those with medium to poor seeing. More for someone on a mountain top.

Greg.

[BlueAstra]

I think the AP1100 is more expensive in Europe. Baader are listing it at about £8500, compared with about £7000 for the PMX.

[Logieberra]

Baader??? Contact AP or SB direct and get a quote! Their front office staff do a wonderful job. They coordinate it all, including VERY competitive international shipping.

But, no question, purchasing via a local distributor does have its perks too... By the time you factor in duties/taxes, the differences in price may be negligible, and a local purchase does include the full range of consumer protections.

[Peter Ward]

Just to give these numbers a real-world perspective, while my PME has a PE of around +/- 2.5 arc sec, when guiding at 1 second intervals, I typically see RMS pixel errors of 0.18 on Dec and 0.2 in RA

That's about 0.3 arc sec for the focal length I'm currently using. This is well below the 2-3 arc sec seeing I get most nights....any is pretty typical for most sea-level locations in Oz.

Would an RA drive pottering along with a 0.2 arc sec error make a difference?

I seriously doubt it, as (A) you haven't solved any Dec dift, and (B) the geometric arc your RA axis is drawing in the sky is unlikely to be perfectly following the path refracted starlight is taking.

Hope that helps.

[Peter Ward]

Some local dealers have been known to charge exactly the same as directly importing it yourself (ie, US list, shipping, customs and GST ) ;)

[gregbradley]

But then Europe/UK gets hit hard on all the prices for just about gear don't they?

Camera prices in UK are always super high I notice.

Greg.