Binnoculars

[CoombellKid]

Soon I'm looking to re-invest in a pair of bino's. I had a pair of 30x60
which I brought from a pawn shop for $150.00 but eventually gave
them away. Previous to me owning them they were dropped and
the colimnation suffered. Plus they were so darn heavy it took me
a few months to get used to holding them, and in the end they gave
me a crook neck.

So the intended use will be mainly scanning the sky complementing
the telescope. And on occassions observing when telescope isn't
setup or available. I have no real interest in daytime observing/birding.
I want to put a budget limit of $500.00, around the 10-12x50 size
although I'm open to other sizes. Also lightweight would be a plus.

So anyone using something along these lines or have experience with
something they might like to suggest, I would like to hear about it.
Anyone use the zoom-able types?

Thanks in advance

regards,CS

Rob

[h0ughy]

gee rob for 500 you could get a pair of 25*100's, make up a parrallelogram mount and sit back and be extremely happy. other than that, nice pair of gerbers or nikons the worlds your oyster, even a pair of 20* 80 light versions - see darren for that one he had a post I beleive on them.

[[1ponders]]

Remember the binocular chair from Astrofest last year Rob? Now that would be the go!!

[Starkler]

I had a look through Steves (Janoskiss) 8x40 Fujinons and they were lightweight and very nice to view through. Fantastic for hand held sweeping without the shakes. Im almost tempted to get a pair.

I find my old 7x50's much less appealing in this role due to their weight.

[janoskiss]

Pentax PCF ?? 12x50 I tried briefly in daylight seemed superior to everything else in its price range. it's well under $500

[janoskiss]

Geoff, it was the that fujinon i ended up getting when I checked out the pentax 12x50.

[Starkler]

I believe the Pentax PCF binos have a small afov at something like 50 degrees which was a turnoff for me when i was researching potential bino purchases.

[janoskiss]

Ditto my Fujinon BFL, Geoff. I fact all good quality 7-12 x 40-50mm binos under $500 seem to have about 50 degree afov.

Interestingly the budget models tend to have 60-65 degree fov. E.g. Olympus DPS I vs EXPS, Nikon Action vs Action Extreme. :confuse3: Maybe that's how you make a mid priced quality bino. Take some cheap ones, reduce the field stop to mask the seagulls, and slap some better coatings on the optics.

[ausastronomer]

Rob,

Have a look at the Pentax PCF WPII series.

I have 2 pairs of the older PCF WP series, the 8 x 40's and the 16 x 60's. They have 20mm of eye-relief, are fully multicoated, Bak 4 prisms, waterproof, fogroof and nitrogen filled. The 16 x 60 size is not available in the new series and I don't know why because they are superb. I have also used the 10x50's and 12x50's and they are very good. I think the 12x50's give a slightly better EOF performance than the 10x50's, albeit the TFOV is slightly smaller and they are both very good for binoculars at this price level. I have no problems hand holding my 16x60's for short periods and the smaller binos are fine in this regard. Here is a review on Cloudy Nights (http://www.cloudynights.com/documents/nikon.pdf) where Ed Zarenski compared the Nikon Action Extremes to several Binoculars including the Pentax 10x50 PCF WP.

$500 is really in no mans land, its more money than you need to spend to get a good pair of binos and its not close to enough money to get the best. A pair of the Pentax PCF WP II's in 12x50 will cost you about $270 from Centre. Net (http://centre.net.au/index.html?cat=00065S&prid=0015NP&it=product) and spending up to $500 does not gain you a lot. The binoculars that will cost you $400 to $500 don't offer much, if anything over these and some are inferior. To get a noticeable performance increase you really need to spend over $1,000 and look at the premium products from the Japanese or German makers. Most of those premium products are closer to $2k than $1k. Some examples of the high end products are the Nikon 10x42 SE ($1,200) and my favourites, Leica Ultravid, Swarovski, Steiner, Fujinon's, Zeiss Victory's etc and the Canon IS binoculars.

CS-John B

[ausastronomer]

Fact is Geoff they are sharp to almost the edge of that narrow TFOV. Read the review of Ed Zarenski I attached in my previous post to Rob. He measured the EOF resolution of the Pentax's as being bettered only by a couple of pairs of significantly higher priced binoculars, including Fujinon FMT's. Most of the budget to mid priced binos offering a larger TFOV are not useable at or near the EOF. The "useable" TFOV of the Pentax PCF WP's is the same or larger than most of the other binos at this price level. No point having an 8 deg TFOV if you get seagulls over 3 degrees of it. In addition to this, they are superior to a lot of the other binos at this price level in many other respects. I suggest you try a pair out rather than just reading the specifications, although I can appreciate in many cases that's all you can do before making a purchase.

CS-John B

[CoombellKid]

Sorry I missed the chat guy's, ever since I re-registered to IIS I dont seem
to be automatically subscribe to threads I post or even if I create them, it's
appears you have to select that option:shrug: ...anyways

Thanks for the feedback... $500.00 dollars was just a limit I had set. The
Pentax PCF WP II 12 x 50 sound like the ticket, same ER as my EP's :)

John, what's the weight like on the PCF WP II 12 x 50 for extended hand
held observing.

Houghy, 25x100 prolly a lil big that what I had in mind but wow! that
could be a good comet observing, ever tried a pair?

regards,CS

Rob

[CoombellKid]

Yup sure do, even got to have a whirl in it, albeit during the day. Yes it would be nice!

regards,CS

Rob

[h0ughy]

Rob, I have a pair of 20*80 triplet binos

[CoombellKid]

What are they David, and how much were they?

Actually looking at that site John posted above, I may look at
16x60 or even the 20x60, but they're up over the 1kg which
might make them a lil heavy for hand held, although John did
mention the 16x60 weren't too bad.

regards,CS

Rob

[h0ughy]

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm

[ballaratdragons]

I too have the exact Knockies (20x80 triplets) that Houghy is talking about (thanks to Houghy) and they are Magic!!!!!!!!

Nebs that are Invisible to scopes just pop out! They are a tad heavy, but that's what mounts are for.

Or for a smaller set, Randall is after a 6" or 8" Dob. Buy him the dob and you keep the Free Knockies that Andrews throw in! :thumbsup: :rofl:

[johnno]

Hi ROB,
I have very little, to add to the advice already mentioned,Except.
Zoom type Binoculars,you mentioned,have a VERY narow fov,even at their widest setting,and are generally Low Quality,overall.

As John, (Ausastronomer),said handholding 16x Binoculars is ok for Short periods of time,but I think he would agree,that for longer periods,A tripod is recommended.

It is NOT only the weight,that causes "Dancing images",
it is also the Magnification.

For LONG periods,of Handholding,my preference,is wide fov,8x40s.

Regards.
John

[ausastronomer]

Rob,

Unfortunately the 16 x 60's are no longer made. The WP series II go from 12 x 50 to 20 x 60. There is a possibility there is still some new stock around of the older PCF WP 16x60's. The 16 x 60's are at the limit of handholdability, not because of weight but the magnification. In addition the TFOV of the 16x60's is 2.8 degrees and the 20x60's is 2.2 degrees. It takes a bit of practise to drop things into the FOV, with the 2.8 degree FOV, the smaller 2.2 degree FOV would be tough. The 12 x50's are a great bino and no trouble to hand hold for extended periods.

CS-John B

[CoombellKid]

John, Yes well the 12x50's would be getting back to what I was actually
looking for, re: extended hand held viewing, and the magnification wobble
at a minumim. Something my old 30x60's lacked. So keeping myself on
track I think the 12x50's will be a nice tool to add to the kit. I so miss
having a set of bino's

Houghy & Ken the 20x80's sound great, something to look at further down
the track, would be lovely for comet ob's, or could even end up being my
grab_and_ go observing tool along with a tripod. But I think and upgrade in
aperture, and one or two more EP's will came first... Solar scope and bino's
in that order are the next investments, gotto get ready for Nov ;)

aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrhhhhhh so many things to buy:help: half of which you
probably dont need, but ya just have to have one :)

btw, what the advantage of triplet bino's, what optical gain do you have
over say standard bino's. Houghy are you bringing the 20x80's to Astrofest?

regards,CS

Rob

[h0ughy]

yes rob I am bringing them

[dhumpie]

Yo Rob,

Yes as Houghy said I have one of those AOE 20x80LW's. They are really good for the price I paid. They are extremely light (in fact they feel lighter than my old Saxon 15x70's) and my Optex T-560 photo tripod handles them with ease. Coatings are a superb fully broadband multicoated on all surfaces (including the Bak 4 prisms) and they come with a very nice rubber armor coating. The views are markedly contrastier than my old fully coated 15x70 Saxon's (probably also due to the magnification factor), but edgewise performance is about the same level with stars remaining sharp till about the last 15% of the FOV or so. Overall a very good buy. Check it out at :

http://www.aoe.com.au/aoe80lw.html

Hope that helps.

Darren

p/s: I have also written a mini review on my web site if you need more info.

[johnno]

Hi All,

Rob,
Have you considered the 11x56 Binocular.

I just re read your initial post,and see you have little interest,in daytime viewing,and would be using them for Astronomy.

I Got mine from A.O.E,and for,HANDHELD ASTRONOMY use,they are MY favourite.

The 56mm objectives,gather a good deal more light than 50mm,and 11x magnification,doesn,t cause Too much handshake.

Just a thought.
Regards.
John