PDA

View Full Version here: : Review/Tale of an Ioptron Minitower Pro Part 1


issdaol
26-01-2013, 10:38 AM
Hi All,

I decided to split this thread from my TSA thread as the Ioptron Mount does need to be covered in independent discussion.

Having Purchased a Takahashi TSA120 for my Son and Family as a Grab and Go Refractor, I decided to purchase a Ioptron Minitower Pro (MTPRO).

Main Needs Were:
-Low Weight and Portability
-Handle TSA120 Payload with Extra Capacity Allowance
-Easy Setup and Breakdown
-Ease of Use with GOTO and Tracking & GPS
-Ability to Plug into Laptop or Iphone/Ipad
-Visual Astronomy Use

I also decided that it would be good for him to learn on an Alt/Az mount then move into a GEM after he had much more practical experience.

The Ioptron seemed to be the only ideal fit available in a Alt/Az mount to meet all the specifications.

The mount and tripod come in 2 separate double cardboard boxes. Unlike Takahashi who lines each box with foam the Ioptron is just double cardboard boxes and the only packing foam is in the inner box for the tripod. However the Mount is sent in a custom lined silver case and appears to be well packed, protected and easy to transport.

Also supplied in the mount case is the Hand Controller, Hand Controller Cable, 240 to 12v Power Pack, USB Cable, a 12v Cable with a Lighter Socket Plug, Tripod Level Adjustment screws, spare Vixen and Losmandy Saddles, and a counterweight. So you have everything to connect and get the mount up and running in one tidy case.

The Ioptron Pro Tripod is the heavier 2inch version and I would suggest based on current experience with this tripod is that this would be the minimum size that should be purchased to give reasonable stability.

The legs on the tripod are extendable and have a simple locking lever which is easy to operate. Lock down seems to be rock solid as I tested the movement of the legs against heavy load and they did not budge. There is no tray or spreader arms to assist with stability although there is a heavy plastic tripod support bracket to helps with that which gets screwed down after the mount is screwed onto the top of the tripod. The plastic tripod support bracket is relatively small and has 3 indentations (one for each leg) which helps locate and lock the legs just under the base of the tripod top.

The top of the tripod has 6 threaded holes. 3 of these (inner holes) are used for the Level Adjustment Screws which is Ioptron’s unique way to support and help level the mount (even if the tripod is not level). The level adjustment screws have one threaded side and one plane rounded off side separated by a plastic knob. The outer 3 holes appear to be used for options like the Pier Adapter.

The bottom of the tripod legs have extendable rubber protected tips to assist reduce vibration and help reduce slippage/movement on uneven surfaces. These tips would not have to be extended unless the surface was very uneven or rocky.

First Issue I noted was that the rubber tips broke up and fell apart on the first evening of use. As the surface was a flat cement surface this meant that the rubber was very old or had been exposed to some condition to make it brittle. I quick photo the next day was sent to AEC & Ioptron and within 2 days I had an express package with replacement rubber feet.

Second Issue I noted is that the threaded holes for the Tripod Level Adjustment screws have not been threaded properly making it extremely difficult to thread the screws in. This can be overcome by working the screws through completely several times.

Third issue was with one of the tripod legs. All three legs should be oriented exactly the same with the lock lever and 2 screws facing inward towards the vertical central position of the mount. In my case one leg was oriented outwards. While this does not hinder the operation of the tripod itself, it does mean that it is impossible to fit upgrades to the tripod legs (like spreader arms and tray). Photos once again sent to AEC & Ioptron. AEC response was good however Ioptron made the excuse that all legs were fitted like this so any tripod could have an offset facing leg. After talking to other Ioptron Owners and Ioptron Service Agent I confirmed that no one had ever seen a tripod with this problem before. Ioptron are considering Air Freighting out a replacement tripod.

The mount itself is quite a simple cube arrangement with power switch, 12v power port, power LED and 2 x HBX ports. The HBX ports are for the Hand Controller and accessories such as auto focuser or auto guider. There is a battery compartment to power the unit from 8 AA Batteries if needed. The Standard attached dovetail is the Vixen Style however a Losmandy D Style Saddle is also supplied along with a spare Vixen Saddle to attach a second scope.

The side with the power switch and other ports also has the Alt/Dec clutch lock wheel and the extendable counterweight shaft. Instead of attaching a counterweight one can choose to attach the spare Vixen or Losmandy Dovetail and mount another scope.

On the opposing edges there is a small “S” with an arrow denoting which side Ioptron expects you to orient the mount facing south and on the other opposing edge is a bubble level for ensuring the mount is level.

On the bottom of the mount there is a place in the centre to attach a 3 prong washer and azimuth clutch locking handle (both supplied in the case). You will also find 3 small receptacles which should line up and mate with the non threaded side of the Tripod Level Adjustment screws.

Setting Up & Tips:

First thing is to attach the 3 prong washer and azimuth clutch locking handle to the bottom of the mount. The washer and handle can only go in one way so this is pretty straightforward. Also the mount can be packaged back into the case with this done so it does not need to be done again.

When setting up the Ioptron it is vital to ensure that the tripod is leveled without the mount attached. Using a good spirit level to level up across all 3 leg axis by adjusting each of the legs.

TIP: After leveling the tripod itself Screw in the 3 x Level Adjustment Screws about halfway into the inner 3 holes on the top of the tripod then level up across all three axis, resting the top of the level across the top of 2 Adjustment Screws at a time in each axis. Adjust the level by adjusting the screws in or out (not the tripod legs). This will ensure that when you sit the mount onto the adjustment screws that it will already be completely level.

Reason for leveling the mount this way is because in the large majority of Ioptron Minitower Mounts the inbuilt bubble level is not accurate and can be anywhere from a small way out to seriously out. If you look at my attached picture you can see that my unit’s bubble level is a fair way out as the mount is sitting on a flat reference surface but the level shows off.

TIP: Make sure that the tripod is oriented is such a way that when the Mount “S” South pointer is pointing true South that the Dovetail is situated equally between 2 tripod legs otherwise there is the possibility of the OTA hitting the tripod leg when it slews (especially from and to Park position)

Apart from balancing the OTA the leveling of the tripod is the lengthiest part of the process. I now have it down to 5 minutes to orient and level the tripod + secure the mount.

Place the mount on top of the tripod ensuring that the 3 locators on the bottom of the mount line up and sit onto the leveling screws such that it is securely in place. Then tighten up the tripod rod ensuring that the slots in the tripod support bracket are lined up with each tripod leg. This completely locks down the tripod legs and mount.

Make any final fine adjustments (leveling & direction)the ensure that mount is level and pointing true south then tighten up the azimuth clutch lock all the way so the mount cannot swivel manually.

If you are using a scope the size of the Tak TSA120 undo the counter balance shaft lock and extend the shaft. Lock the counterbalance shaft then attach the counterweight. The counterweight has a small brass pin inside the hole where the counterweight locking knob is located. When you tighten the counterweight locking knob the brass pin is pushed out and lock into a groove on the counterbalance shaft ensuring that the counterweight stays securely in-place.

Lock down the Alt/Dec clutch and Mount the OTA into the dovetail saddle. You will need to balance the OTA on this Axis ensuring that you have it fully configured for your heaviest loading. I found that the clutch will slip if you do not balance for the heaviest load.

This is also where I encountered another Ioptron Issue. The Alt/Dec clutch material appears to be made from material that is too heavy. What this means is that when you tighten the Alt/Dec clutch it will lock frozen into place. The only thing that would get it to loosen was a strap wrench on the Clutch Handle and counter bar in the Dovetail Saddle and a considerable amount of force. Also the clutch using the factory standard material can disengage at random potentially allowing the OTA to smash into the tripod legs.

Research the forums and talking to other Ioptron shows that this has been an ongoing fault that Ioptron have neglected to fix since 2010. Thankfully there is a cheap independent fix available which is a replacement Teflon clutch. I have sourced and installed the new Teflon clutch and it definitely solves the issue making the clutch much more progressive and secure to lockdown.

Installing the replacement Teflon Alt/Dec clutch is as simple as removing the counterweight locking knob, then remove the alt/dec clutch handle, take out the 4 hex bolt screws in the silver panel (clutch side) remove the factory clutch and replace with the Teflon clutch then putting everything back together. All up taking 20-30 minutes.

Once the OTA is balanced, the OTA should be placed in the “Park Position” which is the starting point that the Ioptron expects the scope to be in. This position has the OTA objective pointing towards zenith. Connect the hand controller and power and power up the mount.

The controller display is really easy to read at night and on first power-up the 32 channel GPS is initialised and shows Date/Time, GPS Coordinates. The GPS status will show GPS on at this stage. It takes several minutes for the GPS to get a lock then GPS Status should change to GPS OK.

You are now ready to run a one or two star alignment procedure to align the mount with celestial targets. If you want you can skip the one or two star alignment and manually line on a known target and choose sync to target method.

issdaol
26-01-2013, 10:40 AM
I won’t go into every function and choice available in the Hand Controller apart from mentioning that the menus are fairly logically laid out and easy to understand and navigate. I have owned both Celestron and Meade SCT’s and I would say that the Ioptron controller is both easier to read and navigate. The scope can be manually slewed using the arrow keys and you can change the slew speed by pressing the numbers from 1 to 9 where 9 is Fastest.

There are a number of options for choosing Targets to GOTO such as selecting named objects, entering catalogue numbers or inputting direct coordinates all fairly easily laid out and simple to select. The object list is filtered automatically by the controller based on your time and location so it does not show objects that are not above the horizon. Once selected the mount will slew to the object. Comparatively the speed and noise is similar to Meade and Celestron SCT Forks. Once located the mount beeps once to let you know you should on Target then enters tracking mode. I found the tracking mode to be quieter than my recollection of my past Meade and Celestron SCT Forks and can only be made out when you put your ear close to the mount.

TIP: Using the mount with the TSA120 I quickly realised that the Losmandy Dovetail is mandatory for a scope of the TSA120 size and weight, especially when you start using Tak Diagonal and Nagler Eyepieces. The Losmandy Dovetail will dramatically reduce any smaller stability issues over using the Vixen Dovetail.

I have found that the Controller Database has quite a few common objects missing from the named lists. While this is not a severe problem as you can enter the catalogue number or coordinates it is a little annoying for example you would think that Tuc 47 or the Jewel Box would be in the named lists. Fortunately the mount can be controlled by Sky Safari Pro using the SkyFi adaptor and a Iphone or Ipad in native mode or using a ASCOM compliant App.

Since applying all the aftermarket fixes and using my leveling procedure I have found the mount to be quite simple and pleasing to use. I can now have the tripod and mount setup and aligned in 5 minutes or 10 minutes if I am going slow. Then quickly balance the OTA and ready to go within another 5 minutes. So you can literally be setup from scratch in 10-15 minutes.

I now find that by using My Levelling procedure and One Star Alignment that my Goto’s will put the target close to centre in my 10mm Pentax or Delos eyepiece even after slews from objects on opposite sides of the sky and keep them there while tracking for long periods. Over time some error will creep in but it is minor and a quick resync/alignment takes care of that within one or 2 minutes.



In Summary:

It appears that it is common for Ioptron to ship Ioptron Minitower Pro mounts with some or all of the following issues:




Alt/Dec Clutch Unable to Disengage and Random Disengagement
Tripod Leg Incorrectly Oriented
Tripod Bubble Level inaccurate
Ability for OTA to slew into Tripod Legs due to Orientation & Height on the Mount
Level Adjustment Screw Holes not properly threaded


These appear to be mainly due to poor quality control during assembly (the OTA slew into the tripod I think is a design flaw) and Ioptron have not provided fixes for any of these in the past 3 years. However the Ioptron Support seem to be willing to replace items under warranty especially if cajoled.

There are aftermarket fixes and procedures to fix all of these shortcomings but that means spending approximately and additional $500.00 on top of the Mount cost and being a little handy with some tools.

As already mentioned, after the aftermarket fixes are all applied the mount does seem to perform really well and is very quick and easy to setup and easily portable for grab’n’go purposes. A quick summary of the positives after all fixes/procedures


Low Weight and Portability
Reasonable Payload
Quick and Easy Setup and Breakdown
Accurate and Ease of Use with GOTO and Tracking & GPS
Ability to Plug into Laptop or Iphone/Ipad and use Sky Safari or ASCOM compliant apps


While I am now happy with the unit I have got, I personally I would not recommend this mount until potential purchasers can confirm that the Quality Control and other fixes are taken care of by Ioptron.

Kunama
26-01-2013, 11:26 AM
What an excellent review !!!

issdaol
26-01-2013, 08:38 PM
Thanks Matt. Just hoping to give everyone a practical and balanced view :-)

I have more pics and details on additional Ioptron Minitower Enhancements for existing/prospective owners if interested.

dannat
26-01-2013, 09:23 PM
Excellent & comprehensive read

mikerr
29-01-2013, 01:22 PM
"I have more pics and details on additional Ioptron Minitower Enhancements for existing/prospective owners if interested."

Phil, thanks for the review and clutch mod details.:thumbsup:
I have recently purchased the Minitower MK2 which is essentially a Minitower PRO, and would like to see any pics/details of other enhancements you have.

Rgds

Michael.

issdaol
29-01-2013, 01:53 PM
Thanks. I tried to keep the length down as much as possible but sometimes you notice other points that you think potential owners might find valuable so it just grows bigger than expected :)



No problem. The upgrades are really well done by a private individual in New Zealand who specializes in Ioptron Mods for the Minitowers.

I don't have his permission to publicly post his contact/details but will ask.

Essentially the main mods are:


New Replacement Clutch made of Teflon (the white washer pictured already)
Hand Controller Cradle (pictured on the side of my mount) This is really practical
Tripod Spreaders and Tray adds excellent stability to the tripod and a good tray for goodies
Pier Adapter/Extension - Solves the problem of the OTA running into tripod legs

All parts are really well made and come with bolts/screws that match the existing Ioptron heads and sizes so they are well thought out too.

Cheers

issdaol
29-01-2013, 05:38 PM
Hi All,

I have been given the Ok to post information and contact details for the individual doing the Ioptron Minitower Mods.

The gentleman is Graham Beazley. He is retired and specializes in these mods as a retirement business

You can contact him on gjbiz@beazley.co.nz

All transactions are done through Paypal and are very quick and professional. Graham is really nice and helpful to talk to and deal with.

Please see attached pictures of the mods. Some of the pictures are of my Mount and Mods and some are better pictures that Graham sent me in the past.

Cheers

Blue Skies
29-01-2013, 11:08 PM
Hi Phil,

This is great, as I have one of these and currently have the Alt/Dec clutch locked solid and haven't been able to undo it for fear of breaking it! So I can get the teflon clutch from Graham then? The modded lock with the extra grip looks useful too.

I don't have a problem with the scope hitting the legs as I use a 8"SCT with mine, and even with a video camera attached I've had no problems, but the one thing I would love to have is a longer cable between the hand controller and the mount so it will reach across to a nearby table where I have my laptop set up. I tried getting what looked like a standard replacement but the hand controller wouldn't talk to the mount with it.

issdaol
30-01-2013, 12:23 AM
Hi Jacquie,

I had exactly the same concern. A bit of force will not damage it. If you need to undo it now, the red polycarbonate strap wrench from Bunnings and applying a little bit of anticlockwise pressure on the clutch handle will bring it unlocked. Remember to put counter pressure on the Dovetail Saddle at the same time.

Reason why I recommend this particular strap wrench is that it is not made from metal parts so is much less likely to scratch/mark your mount.

Graham makes the teflon clutch to suit the different MT models (apparently one model has a different internal diameter) and will definitely fix it. You will be surprised.

The clutch handle mod is particularly useful as is the tripod and spreader arms to make the tripod more stable. I also like the hand controller cradle rather than having the hand controller dangling off the pin which is the original Ioptron method.

Not sure if Graham does extension cables so it might pay to ask him.

However if you are handy with a soldering iron or crimping tool you could make one. You could get all the parts at Alltronics in Northbridge Perth

http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=cont

Hope this helps.

Cheers

LewisM
30-01-2013, 12:28 AM
Must make myself a MUCH longer hand controller cable for my Skywatcher NEQ6 - why they make them so ridiculously short baffles the imagination - I don't like to stretch it, because I don't like pulling on that RS232 that's in the mount.

Anyway, back to this fascinating iOptron review - certainly been very beneficial to me in deciding on possible alt-az mounts for my FS60C.

Blue Skies
30-01-2013, 01:26 AM
Thanks for the info, Phil. I will definitely look into the wrench and get in touch with Graham on the mods.:thanx:

Graham Beazley
31-01-2013, 03:10 PM
Phil.
Thank you very much for that indepth review of some of my Mini tower accessories. I'm pleased that they are doing the job for you.
Actually I feel humbled by your review but glad also so once again thank you.
To all who have these fabulous mounts, these accessories I build are done by me, by hand at home in my workshop.. Its just a hobby but its great to make these mounts perform better... Lost of design and development but I get there in the end. If anyone has any questions they can ask here of send me an email.. Phil has put up my email for those that require it.
cheers.
Graham.

Kunama
08-02-2013, 10:22 PM
Very impressive array of upgrades for the mount. Love the attention to detail.

Graham Beazley
09-02-2013, 11:07 AM
Thankyou for those compliments... I also do internal mods to the MT i.e.
Bearing upgrades, respringing of the motors conbined with polishing the mating surface of the stopblocks. This mod enables me to adjust these stopblocks closer to the motor end ribs which reduces the wiggle you can sometimes get when focusing with larger or longer OTA's... In my opinion a very worthwhile mod. For the version one MT I also make a heavy duty DEC/ALT clutch which has about 400% more surface area, so there are many things one can do to make these a fun mount to use.
I have also made a wedge for my personal mount but that is another story.
cheers.
Graham.

Astronom01
22-06-2013, 05:35 PM
Hallo Phil,
sehr gute Beschreibung,wo bekommt man die Teile her?
Dieter

Visionary
20-02-2016, 10:40 AM
Dear Phil,

Thankyou for your excellent review, further more the excellent so comments upon this review are exceedingly useful.

Cheers

David

issdaol
21-02-2016, 01:23 AM
Hi David,

Thanks for the comments.

Im glad this review can still be of help to yourself and other people looking at this mount.

Cheers
Phil

Don Pensack
01-03-2016, 09:55 AM
Interesting to read. Sounds better than my standard MiniTower:
I had two serious problems with mine. Both were fixed, but one may crop up again with the (new) owner:
--the bearings move in little jerks. This jittering isn't visible at low power, but definitely is at high power. Teflon lube in the bearings smoothed that out and pretty much make the jitters invisible, but the lube needs renewing every few months.
--the motor boards burned out twice and had interaction issues with the hand controller. The first motor board disallowed the centering of an object in the field because it kept moving when the finger was taken off the button. Solved by board #2. Board #2 burned out and was replaced with board #3, which burned out. Board #4 was still working when I sold the mount, but it hadn't been used much. iOptron replaced all the boards, but I suspect there is an under-rated electrical pathway that causes the problem.

The original saddle clamp is worthless and needs to be replaced with an ADM style saddle that uses two bolts to pinch the saddle between two long saddle edges.

The reason I mention my experiences with the MiniTower is that I note the Mini-Tower Pro is nearly identical internally. Most of the difference appears to be in the much beefier tripod.
It sounds like Graham has a handle on making the mounts more useful.