windows8 woes

[Shiraz]

I shoulda known better - but I installed windows 8 pro over the top of win7 to get a remote desktop host. well that bit worked but some other things don't anymore. Will no longer accept the driver for my QHY5 guide cam and the OCTAVE package which I use a bit is no longer functional - that is just the stuff that I have come across to date. I had assumed that Win8 would be basically similar to Win7 with a different GUI - well it's not - they have fiddled with it. Now I can't get back to my old system - Microsoft does not offer a roll-back or legacy interface.

otherwise, impressions of win8 are:
It's fast.
The interface is an odd amalgam that looks like it was designed by the camel committee. provides a tablet look as the first port of call for those people who want to get stuff rather than do stuff.
Those of us that do stuff can get access to the guts, but we have lost the START button and all the power that went with it. Now there is nothing to help you get around and find things when you can't remember the name or location - START used to just put it all there in front of you and there is nothing remotely similar in this incarnation. Big drop in productivity.

Overall, disappointed and cursing my own gullibility.

[technofetishism]

bring up the new splash, righ click and down the bottom is menu or something, everything then is visible after you click it.

[supernova1965]

I will not be using it I trailed it and am happy with Win7

[Steffen]

Not all is lost, though:

https://twitter.com/Jury/status/293879721652015104

[MikeyB]

:rofl: Brilliant summary! :rofl:

I can't even reach my 27" monitor, much less use a touch interface at a comfortable viewing distance for a widescreen. And there's no way I'd want my desktop looking like this mess - it's like something from a pre-schooler's colouring book.

[alistairsam]

Hi,
I've been using Windows 8 on my new non-touch work laptop for a month now, and I actually love it. Its extremely fast and once you overcome the urge to click the start button, use the shortcut keys, its very easy to use.
I'm in IT, so I am able to customize it to my liking. But I really don't miss the start button, and I do love the concept of Apps. There are some nice free apps in the store.
For those who really miss the start button, there are heaps of apps that can restore it for you.
i've tried it and it works really well.
http://www.classicshell.net/
more details here
http://www.infoworld.com/d/microsoft-windows/9-windows-start-menus-windows-8-208963?page=0,1
and just like how you used to click on start and type the name of the program you want, you press the windows key and type the name, it searches it for you.
My wife got a new laptop with win8, and she's the typical user who doesn't have the patience to change IT habits, but she's also warmed up to it now.
Same with my work colleagues. I'd never go back to win7. I'm no big fan of microsoft, but its mainly the speed that impresses me.
I use an X1 Carbon, and it boots up windows 8 from a complete shutdown in 7 seconds.
Cheers

[Shiraz]

Hi guys. thanks very much for the info and opinions. Windows 8 certainly seems to have polarised its user base.

My QHY5 now works again. W8 will not load drivers that look a bit dodgy - unlike W7, which asked if you were prepared to take the risk. However, it does more than that - when I installed it, it removed the existing QHY5 driver. It then refused to load the latest QHY5 64 driver that is on the QHY website. After many hours of hair pulling and trying to understand the underlying processes (I am not IT), I found that the following workaround did the job. http://tivadj-tech.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/certificate-check-error-when-installing.html

wonder what else it has removed without telling me...

the problem with the w8 approach to keeping us safe is that we amateur astronomers often have to use software that has been written (in someone's shed???) for maybe a few hundred users - it is not always going to be pristine. W8 can make it near impossible to use this sort of sw even though we may be willing to accept the risk. I can understand their reasoning, but it doesn't help us much.

re usability, I just spent 20 minutes trying to find the client for Dave Trewren's focuser. I couldn't remember where I had put it or what it was called, but I knew it was in there somewhere near other ASCOM stuff. Search was no help at all the way I was using it - it could find all the paid-for apps, but not some obscure exe hiding deep in the folder structure. With the w7 search, I would have found it in a second.

Whatever, I am stuck with w8 now and will just have to learn to love it..it's not all bad, but I have not found it to be at all friendly. In my experience, this operating system is so biased away from the conventional PC model that you probably need to use an instruction manual just to get it to work reasonably - or download after-market fixes to restore the underlying functionality. never had to do either before.

regards ray

[alistairsam]

Hi Ray,
you should be able to find it from the w8 start screen. just type a few characters and on the right, choose files instead of apps or settings. so it searches all files. its the similar indexed search as with win7.
as you mention, its not all that hard, just a steep learning curve cause a lot of things aren't that apparent and advertised. You can get apps for tips and tricks, that helps a lot.
the shortcut keys also help
winkey+X, winkey+D, winkey+E, winkey+R, winkey+tab, and so on.
I haven't tried the qhy5 drivers yet, but will have a look at the workaround you mentioned.
Cheers

[Shiraz]

thanks Alistair

[supernova1965]

Sounds like more trouble than it is worth causing more problems and having to install apps just to bring back functionality that Win7 has built in and I recon that add on apps will never be as stable as if it is built into the OS.

[MikeyB]

There's the problem - Windows Search hasn't worked properly since XP, in my experience. On W7, sometimes it finds things and sometimes it just doesn't, even when I know they are there and readily findable. I've resorted to using a third-party freebie 'Agent Ransack' (terrible name!), that does the job properly.

Just another example of how Microsoft is steadily losing the plot, IMHO. They've run out of saleable, practical features to add/upgrade, so nowadays it's change for the sake of change, whether the the end-users like it or not. The horribly inefficient and clumsy ribbon interface that they forced on Office users is a prime example.

[Manav]

Are you able to load and run Qhy drivers and ascom on win8? The reason I ask is cause I too am interested in getting carbon.

[AstroJunk]

If you cant handle the start screen, buy start8 (Google it) for5 bucks and you will be back on dry land. Then you can enjoy the benefits without the challenge of the new way of working.

I have found win8 a great successor to 7 but it really needs a touch screen single monitor to make sense. It seems to be aimed at the sort of screen tech we will see next year eg flexible ultrawides. You can tell its good as Google are attacking it!

[2stroke]

It was made for touch screens and that's the issue lol. Besides that its much better with amd notebooks like mine with a a6 4400m trinity, it manager's cpu's cores a hell of alot better then windows 7 when doing multi threading work. I have also found it faster and boot times seem much better. The only thing i hate is the interface on the notebook with trackpad its a living hell due to moving to the left hand top corner and then being switch to start screen when all i want is to click file ect :/ The GUI sucks plain and simple, people can say what the want but numbers speak for them selfs. I'am sure it won't be long before someone makes a window manager for it to at least fix some things :)

[2stroke]

Thankyou so much that just solved my hate worth $100 IMO:thumbsup:

[AstroJunk]

My pleasure :lol:

Actually, the idiot who ditched the start button was given the flick by MS. I suspect it may come back. Indeed, I actually quite like what I call the 'work' and 'play' duality, and will flip over to metro to read news etc for a break.

[acropolite]

IMO It's a pig, no matter how much lipstick, it's still a pig, you shouldn't need to patch or load apps to achieve a workable outcome. As for the speed I'd reserve judgement, I remember the same claims of speed with Win7; it too was fast in the early releases, but like all MS operating systems it lost momentum as subsequent patches were release. I'm a great fan of the start menu because it suits my software base and work practices. Love or hate the start menu, it's an efficient and fast way to access your programs.

[Shiraz]

thanks for the info folks.

Well, a week later and I still don't like the interface logic and the inefficient search process - will have to download one of the aftermarket overlays to get the start button back (why should I have to though). I do like the speed of operation though - it really flies on my oldish i7 laptop.

Have now got everything working except for an old version of The Sky (can live without), but it certainly wasn't a totally transparent process as suggested by the Win8 packaging..

Have ASCOM6 running OK, with Dave Trewren's focuser client and the QHY5 running in phd (see an earlier post on how to get the QHY5 64 driver to load). Also have QHY8 working OK.

[AstroJunk]

If you have yet to install a start button, press the the windows (home) key then type a few letters of the program you are after. It's rather good...

The part I'm not keen on is the transition between Metro and traditional. hence I use start8, but i know some that have persisted and have seen the light!

[bcmalloy]

just install classic shell it's free (open-source) unlike start 8 and better. to get your
start menu back http://www.classicshell.net/
without spending a cent

Windows 8 is great under the hood shame about the idiots removing the start menu