About to kill an NEQ6

[LewisM]

My woes continue with this 6 month old NEQ6.

Good night here in SEQLD, and the damned mount is slipping in dec.

PHD can't guide with it. At one point, even said DEC calibration unsuccessful, turning off dec guiding! Again, you can watch the stars move in the PHD screen. I have tried Barnard 33, M 1 and now M45, all with NO success. If the telescope is on the west side on the mount, it won't guide. If it's on the east side, it won't guide either. And the lot is balanced.

So, what to do? Send it back to Tasco to replace? I am not pulling it apart unless they send me replacement parts. Or just take it into Sirius and get a warranty replacement?

Tired of this. Second SW mount to do this to me, and I always take utmost care in balance etc.

[Astroman]

If it's under warranty I would be taking it back to the place you got it from. Have you rang them yet and told them? Maybe let them take it back to check it out. Something isn't right with it obviously. Does it slew ok with the scopes on?

[Screwdriverone]

Have you got the tracking on Sidereal Lewis?

Mine always switches itself off if I don't do a star alignment and just go straight to PC direct mode.

I dont think you would be overloading it, have the clutches been done up tightly?

Cheers

Chris

[LewisM]

Clutches take the Hulk to loosen.

Slews slower than it used to. Probably sipping a bit going around.

It is on Sidereal.It is under warranty. I know Pete and Ron well at Sirius, so likely a road trip tomorrow.



About had it up to my gills with SW. Problem is I cannot afford anything better just now.

[Starcrazzy]

Feeling your pain. On my second heq5 in 12 months and sending it back to Andrews tomorrow. Just suddenly stopped guiding with my stand alone guide camera. I look after it really well. Starting to think they are a bit junky. Is a shame because when it works it works well. Just don't seem to have the longevity they used to.;(

[LewisM]

Yep - I think 6 months is all you get before issues start.

No wonder they have a 5 year warranty.

I KNEW I should have bought a Vixen mount from the start.

Twice bitten...

[LewisM]

Found my original receipt, so it goes back tomorrow. It's only 4 months old! Bought it on 26 Sept 2012. :mad2:

Should go for a Meade mount :rofl:

[LewisM]

What ticks me off more than anything is:
1. first REALLY decent night in AGES
2. was planning on 3 straight hours on Barnard 33
3. Set up in a REALLY really dark spot, secluded from wind etc.

And all for NAUGHT!

I have unplugged the autoguider and have been letting the mount track M42 for 25 minutes unguided now - will go and check it and see how far it is off NOW!

At least I got some visual in in frustration. Jupiter is MAGNIFICENT tonight, and I can clearly see nebulosity around the Pleiades stars, as well as M42 showing green, with a perfectly clear trapezium.

I cannot speak highly enough of my Vixen FL102. What a scope.

As to the Chinese mount....见鬼 (I am sure some of you can read that!)

[asimov]

Unless you treat these mounts with respect, they'll not perform at their best - I kick it & spit on the bugger every time I walk past mine - It's never let me down yet..!

Just wondering if the DEC clutch adjustment is bottoming out at the end of it's movement BEFORE it's actually getting enough tension to lock the axis if you know what I mean..

http://www.astro-baby.com/EQ6%20rebuild%20guide/EQ6-declination%20strip%20down.htm

[sheeny]

It sounds to me like your clutch is bottoming out as John said.

The clutch levers have a limited travel. I found one of mine was not locking properly... just undo the screw between the lever and the shaft, and rotate the lever around 90° on the square shaft. If that is the problem, the clutch should now lock before the lever binds.

Al.

[LewisM]

Actually, great suggestion - though I will head into Sirius today anyway and see what they say. It sure does NOT seem that it fully locks.

Problem is, you cannot rotate the dec lever through 90° to change it - there is a cast in stop position etc.

It goes back.

[Screwdriverone]

That's why Al suggests unscrewing it Lewis, so you can move it away from the cast stop and then replace it 90 offset from where it was to see if you can then fully engage the clutch.

Maybe a moot point if you have trundled off to Sirius already.

Chris

[LewisM]

Chris,

I know - it won't fix it though. It's just bloody worn.

[Astroman]

Good luck with it Lewis, I hope it is something simple as the clutch lever.Let us know how it goes.

[asimov]

Excessive grease on that part of the gear wheel is not a good idea either, A dry clutch is better. Very easy without pulling things apart, just undo the philips head screw, pry the lever off the brass square, unwind the square, get the round plug out underneath that, shove a piece of rag in the hole & rotate the mount in DEC & keep repeating on a new section of rag until there's no grease. The same goes for the RA gear wheel.

[Shiraz]

obvious stuff, but have you checked that the three screws that hold the puck on the top of the mount are tight? - be careful tightening though, everything up there is soft ally (bar the screw of course)

[rmuhlack]

if there is no problem with slewing, and only a problem with 'guiding' then can the root cause really lie with the mount mechanics? To me that situation would suggest a problem with communication between pc and mount, or with the guiding software (or both) - especially if this is indeed the *second* mount where this problem has been observed.

Perhaps the calibration step size in the PHD setup is set too low? Are you using a guide scope or an OAG? A loose USB cable or hub connection causing issues? The problems with PHD or EQMOD that I myself have observed with my own setup have usually been related to these causes.

[Steffen]

Hi Lewis, what SynScan software version are you running?

I'm not using a guider but I had some Dec oddity with the latest version (3.32). Using goto to slew to an object the mount would go there with good accuracy, then move away in Dec by a good half degree or so, move back to the object, move away again etc, a few times. It would eventually stop away from the object rather than on it.

Downgrading to version 3.27 fixed this.

Cheers
Steffen.

[LewisM]

OK, dropped into Sirius and told Ron the issue. He handed me a new circuit board, and said if that does not fix it, Tasco willfix/replace (he rang whilst I was there). Tasco said to upgrade the firmware (already have)and that if no grinding sounds or weird motor sounds are heard, then it is most likely the main board is on it's way out, so replace it.

Richard, this is the FIRST mount to do this. The previous HEQ5 failed MECHANICALLY where the motor shaft would spin in the cog, with the cog not moving (A QC issue) There are no comm errors with computer and PHD, as like I said, after aligning, the mount starts to drift by itself in Dec VERY rapidly - in the 25 minutes I left it alone unguided last night as a trial from being on M42 to start, it ended up being easily 30° off target.

I will flash the hand controller AGAIN, and install the new MOBO, and see what transpires. If all else fails, hopefully a replacement head.

[Merlin66]

".....is slipping in dec"

How are you measuring this slippage? Forget PHD for a moment...what is actually moving?
I honestly don't know what the issue is, but all I can say is that I've been using an HEQ5pro and a NEQ6pro for the last six years under some petty heavy loading (C11 + spectroscope + Cameras etc) and they've never let me down.
If I ever think I have a problem....sometimes the slew under EQMOD is suspect - it's traced 99.9% of the time down to balancing.
You really need to balance in three axis...
-around the OTA
-the Dec
and the RA axis.
(Obviously our posts crossed! - I see you have a 30 degree "movement" in Dec - this as you're thinking must be due to the dec motor still driving....)

[rmuhlack]

okay, settle down. note that your initial post states that:



Anyway...

In which DEC direction does it fall - north or south? Does it always fall/drift in the same direction? (I assume that is is "falling" and not being driven in DEC when its not meant to be as you refer to the problem as "slipping" and so suspected the clutch was not working properly.)

You have said several times that this is a problem *after* you have drift aligned. Im confused as to how drift alignment is possible at all if the mount is moving in DEC when its not meant too? :shrug:

Also, if the scope is properly balanced in all directions, why is it falling/drifting at all? If properly balanced surely it should stay still (in both RA and DEC) when pointing at any sky position even with the clutches fully disengaged...??

I also noticed on your photo of the R200SS on your classified listing that the OTA seems to be further back in the tube rings than what I would have expected - my 200mm f4 newt certainly wouldn't be balanced in DEC in that position (although I would expect my NEQ6 clutch to still be able to hold it in position anyway)

Your image: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=129493

[LewisM]

Richard, not after drift aligning, but after a Synscan 3 star alignment. Even during the alignment routine, the stars are drifting quite noticeably in the short time on each target.

The R200SS is balanced that was because it usually has a whacking big 5D Mk II DSLR hung under it. I took the DSLR off for the photo :) I have used the R200SS all of 3 times, and never was there a balnce issue. THe scope I use on this mount is a Vixen Fl102 refractor, which is always perfectly balanced - I even had a small adjustable counterweight custom made to do small adjustments.

I suspect the dec is not slipping or falling, but is being incorrectly DRIVEN as Merlin66 also suspects. I tried a PEC correction even, but that failed miserably - could not keep it centred.

I just tried a push and pull test on the axes all clutched up - NO movement, though I was NOT going to push overly hard either.

As Tasco said and Ron at Sirius, motherboard - motor controller failing or corrupt "driver" in the handset.

Time will tell.

[Merlin66]

Lewis,
Just a thought...
What happens when you use the handcontroller to move the RA and DEC.
Various speed settings etc - does the Dec stop when the button is released? is there any particular speed setting which aggravates the problem?

[asimov]

It's pretty well confirmed with your test then I feel - It's not a slipping clutch.

[LewisM]

BTW, apologies Richard - I was not meaning to be sarcastic etc. I am just flabberghastingly frustrated!

[LewisM]

Ken, dec WILL stop, momentarily, then starts to creep.

Wish there was clear skies here tonight to test. I just have a sinking feeling it will need to go back.

Ron did say to check the cables for worn insulation - this apparantly does happen with the HEQ5/HE!6/NEQ6 a fair bit, causing intermittent issues.

[Terry B]

Can you feel the dec motor turning after a slew has finished. If the mount is reasonably polar aligned then the Dec motor should not be moving.
I don't have my EQ6 anymore and don't remember exactly but is there an option to disable Dec corrections. If you can do this then you should be able to work out if the motor is driving when it shouldn't

[Irish stargazer]

Just an after thought. Could your power supply be running a low voltage? This can cause mounts to do funny things.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Lewis,

One of my original points was to check that sidereal tracking is actually on?

Not sure if you answered it, I know its obvious, but my scope doesnt turn it on if I dont do an initial alignment after boot up. It has caught me out twice now as I normally do at least a 2 star before going into PC direct mode with EQ mod. Even if EQmod sidereal is turned on, it goes off again....

Not implying you havent done it, but often the simple things may get overlooked.

If you slew and then the target immediately starts drifting, then maybe the tracking is off?

Chris

[LewisM]

Chris,

Sidereal is ALWAYS on with this mount, as I always do a 3 star align at boot up. I also always make sure tracking is on.

I received some information from another NEQ6 user experiencing the same issue, and it MAY be an issue with a dll with PHD guiding, as Chris Stark addressed this issue precisely apparently (I have not found it on his site yet). He suggests to delete a certain dll, letting the program rewrite it at fresh start. Just to be sure, I downloaded and installed the very latest PHD as well (2 months old).

I really am not sure it is a PHD issue though, as the mount does regress quickly even with PHD exited.

John, I am running a dedicated DC supply as supplied by Steve Massey - he knows his stuff, so I am certain the power supply is not at fault. I will check it too though, and even try the setup from the old jump start battery setup.

Terry, I think the dec does continue - seems to be some hum in it. Not the usual RA sound I m used to - there is definitely an additional noice I noted last night - a high frequency sound on top of the high freq pitch of the RA.

Going to be a lot of trial and error...

[LewisM]

Ken,

I balance in dec first, and then in RA. Not sure the difference in "around OTA balance" (unless you mean the asymmetric balance like with Newtonians? I only use a refractor, and the only off-axis weight will be the finderscope, which is not much). Pleas elaborate, as I obviously need to learn.

There has not been any balance or tracking errors prior to this week (mount hadn't been used in a month thanks to QLD's glorious weather), so unless any potential mis-balance "hurt" something that finally gave up?

Really appreciate the help guys. It will be sorted, one way or the other!

[mithrandir]

Lewis, PHD 1.14 is supposed to have a few bugs. They may not affect your NEQ6 but in case you might try 1.13.7a from the prerelease page (http://www.stark-labs.com/prerelease.html) or 1.13.x from the archive page (http://www.stark-labs.com/OldVersions/Windows/)

[2stroke]

Maybe you should post your phd setting in case, its also wise to have it out of balance a just a tad so it rides on one side of the worm. Lol having a hell of a time myself :(

[allan gould]

Have you tried another guiding program such as guidedog, guidemaster or Metaguide rather than phd?

[LewisM]

Allan, no, I have not but will. Unless PHD became corrupt, I cannot see how it could have changed since I had not updated PHD in months, and only updated the handset AFTER the issue last night.

But most importantly, as I said, even if PHD is not running, the mount was definitely whacky in dec.

I pulled the mount apart tonight.Nothing obvious except for a SLIGHTLY out of alignment LED plug, which probably only wiggled off that little when I was removing the cover plate etc.

I locked the clutches as tight as humanly possible, and there is ZERO play in dec. RA has a MINUTE side to side movement - about 1/2mm each side, if that.

More trial and error - put I need a star to guide off, which is NOT even plausible here in SE QLD at the moment (lovely rain!) as I am sure you know.

[Merlin66]

Lewis,
Re balancing...
Yes, "asymmetrical" balancing of the OTA.
Most of the time the amateurs just position the OTA horizontal and check the balance. When the scope is pointing towards the zenith, finders, guiders, cameras, cables, filter wheels etc etc etc can all lead to an out of balance Dec condition. This can show up as OK guiding with lower altitude stars and rubbish guiding with higher altitude stars....
Definately worth checking out.